The Rich Redmond Show

Unknown: I mean, I blew my
headphones off. I was playing

just raw what I could hear, you
know, I haven't played raw

cymbal volume in years.

Oh, it's, it's a drum set is
like a jet airliner taking off,

you know. I mean, it's like a
jet airlines. 100 is like 120

decibels. And the average drum
set could be somewhere between,

you know, 85 to 120 the way I
played is around 120

thankfully, the singer Roger the
Huey, yeah, I think the same

thing happened to him. He
couldn't hear either, so we're

just looking at each other. He's
like, Yeah, I got nothing

either. I'm like, okay, the show
has to go on. I said,

I gotta go on. I had to play it
him in those moments. But it's

not, you know, it's not as not a
pool you want to swim in. That's

right,

yeah, dead battery. Dead
battery.

That's what it was

in the little box that I plugged
into,

yeah, man. And I didn't even
notice a gym. Of course, I was

talking to a million people not
really Paying

attention. But this is the

rich Redmond show you.

Every now and then, around
midnight,

the more river I ask you to
feeling right. I

pull a jug and a flat top out
that back

porch fit To

get loud. Like

today, that dirt deer on your
boots.

Can't hear already better, get
here

fast, drop a lead food on that
gas stolen Well, He's gone

tomorrow already. Already

can make you wanna stop.

Out little hometown dirt stone,
like a bag of church stone wanna

cover head On tomorrow, storm,

a stone.

Nice, so much for getting
levels.

We might do two versions of it,
but that was

pretty cool. It felt so good.
Man, I couldn't stop

that. Was just so easy. Man, you
have like a just a feel of all

fields.

Man, you kidding me to play that
song with you? So cool. Man,

that's bad.

Great job, man. I think I've
known some of your live

drummers. Ethan Harris, yeah,

I was, oh, man, yeah. He played
for me for a bit,

man. Ethan's viral.

So Ethan's the guy that had the,

he's how to get fired from a
gig. He

had the bunk, yeah, the bonk
sound. What's the bonk sound?

He's

basically at, yeah, down in he's
recording down on Broadway, and

he's got like, an SPDs next to
him, yeah, with samples on it.

So yeah. And it's like, what
song are they playing?

I forget, but he put the bonk in
the weirdest of places, and it

just rubbed everybody. It just
tickled everybody. And

they also. On a diet, yeah? And
it became a thing, and now he's

got a huge following,

yeah? See that? I texted him not
longer. I was like, dude,

congratulations. Yeah. I was
like, his stuff has totally

blown up. So I

remember he we, he goes, Hey,
man, can I ask you some

questions? A couple years ago,
we went to go get some sushi in

the middle of the day, and I
said, do this. Don't do that.

Try this. Blah, blah, blah,
throw this thing against the

wall. Always prepare. Show up.
He's doing great, doing great,

you know, yeah, it's

crazy. All my drummers that I've
had have, you know, done stuff

with you, and have been taught
by all kinds, you name them.

Man. Anthony Pendle, he drummed
for me for a while. Yeah, oh my

god, yeah. He's up in
Pennsylvania now, and his dad

was a detective, and he wanted
to go in that line of work and

get off the road. So I still
know that. So talk to him all

the time. Great, dude. Yeah. But
yeah, is he playing still? No. I

mean, he plays around, I think
just at home, but he's totally

switched. Got off the road, you
got it? Got it out? Yeah, he

did. And he's, he's a detective
up up north in Pennsylvania, a

detective, yeah, so he had to
put his time in. I mean, that

doesn't happen, no, huh? He
worked as he worked his way up.

So did you know him when you
lived there?

Yeah, and then he moved down,
played with me for quite some

time.

Yeah, I did not know that.
That's super cool. So Anthony

Ethan, and then do you have a
nice stable of guys now that

you've had

for a while? Man, so right now,
actually, I'm three piecing it

lately, which is really cool.
And so bass, drums and me on

electricity, like a power trio,
no, yeah. And so, like, the

rush of country music, man,

you're like, you know, Betty
Lee,

ZZ Top, I'll just myself out.
Yeah, you like the police, yes,

for sure, my bass player has
been with me for like, over 10

years. That's great. And I've
had a couple great drummers, and

I kind of have a bank. Here's
the thing too. Is like, when I

would go in between deals or
whatever, you know, it's, it's

difficult to you, it's difficult
to keep a steady, the same guys,

when you don't have a counter
full of dates at the time, I

know, you know, yeah. So I kind
of have a bank of guys that I

love, and I'll see, you know,
people hopping around different,

you know, yeah.

So why do you why would you want
to not have a full band in that

scenario? Is it just financial?
Is it, well, I deficiency.

Typically I'm a four piece. I
always was a four piece, and

then it must have been like a
fly date or something that I was

like, I think I want, we need. I
had to cut down on some costs

just a couple years ago, and I
did a three piece and was kind

of, you know, I was a little
intimidated by that, because,

you know, the guitar player, you
gotta cover a lot of ground, big

time, yeah, and

Anson, but you got it. You've
got the chops, you have the

time, you got the feel, you got
the technique, you got the

musicianship.

Hey, if Eddie can do it, yeah,

well, thank you. But the thing
of it is, was I was mind blown

after I did that first gig, or
first show, I was like, I love

the space.

What? How long ago was this?

Maybe, like, four years ago,
probably did the first three

piece, and it hadn't been three
piece this whole since then. You

know, I'll do it here and there.
But I love the space that it,

that it creates, because it's
not just notes and music and

just a wall of sound. It lets
the music breathe and to play

the right spot, to serve the
song, play the right part in the

right place, and free some stuff
up, and not being afraid of some

space, and letting the music
like kind of that's a little

heady. But, you know, I'm
saying,

You Speak for yourself. I mean,
here we are in the songwriting

capital of the world. You got
great music, you got great

songs, great melodies. You're a
great singer, you're a great

player. So, I mean, yeah, look
at, look at the amount of noise

that rush made, the amount of
noise that the police made three

guys. So you get these really
well written songs

in rush, I think was Johnny
Rabb, who said that he thought

all of them upon listening to
the record. He didn't realize

that Neil was the only one doing
the percussion. That's what

Johnny Rab said. He says, I
thought it was all the guys

actually overdubbing and doing
all the percussion. He's like, I

had no idea it was just him. And
then you have Getty, that

handled synth on the feet, synth
on the hands base and vocal

duties, that's a heavy thing. So
that's, you know, you still got

a ways to

go. Me, man, three guys on the
road, and you do any and you

could, you do save some money,
and if you got to jump in the

van, you got to jump in a van,
sure, you got to be like that

forever, you know, yeah, you
know. I mean, I don't want to

be, I don't think I want to be a
three piece forever, because

there's times where I miss that
other guy. And big venues, like,

if we're playing, like, big, big
shows that I'm gonna have my

other guy, my other rhythm guy,
I'd

like, I'd like to see a three
piece, though. You know, you

fronting this to three. That
would be interesting. Yeah, let

us know you don't see that. Let

us know where we can see a show.
Man,

I know it. I know it. I think if
you're gonna be. On all

month. Bengaliher.com,

probably right, yeah. So that,
Gallagher, no, you don't know

watermelons, yeah, I left him in
a truck.

It's $1,000 fine if you say his
name wrong or put

that in the rider. No, you do
put the pronunciation in there,

and then you remind him before
the radio guy walks on and he

says, Ladies and Gentlemen, Ben

Gallagher, it's like, Come on,
man, we just talked about it.

I know. So radio people are not
very small

Jim, that is who we're talking
to 14 years in Nashville,

hailing from Camp Hill,
Pennsylvania. It's an area of

the state he calls pencil,
Kentucky. Pencil, pencil tucky.

Man, a lot of Pennsylvania, I'll
call pencil tucky. Yeah,

because,

I mean, you're you and I are
from the like, I'm familiar with

that area, Lancaster. Oh, yeah,
it's not Lancaster, it's

Lancaster. That's right, and
you're right, Jim, is it Amish

or

Amish? I say Amish, but it is
Amish. Yeah. So,

yeah, they make great snacks.
They really they make great

furniture. Pies, oh, peanut
butter pretzels. Did you ever

hear

the restaurant called the good
and plenty? Oh, yeah, remember

that that's not around anymore.
No, it's because we used to eat

there when

I was a kid. Maybe you could
start one. It's a long time ago.

Jim, I don't I

don't need any more businesses
to start. I'm good with ones I

have. Yes, so,

man, thank y'all for having me.
Thank you so huge honor for me

to be sitting here with you.
Kidding me, man,

you know what I got to I
listened. We really appreciate

it.

You're a singer, you're a
songwriter, you're a guitarist,

you're a recording artist,
you're a viral social media

phenom. 35 million views on
YouTube, Instagram and Tiktok of

you playing that opening riff.
You're keeping, you're keeping

the chicken pick and thing
alive, man, you know, and you're

bringing it to a whole new
audience. Because, because, you

know, in the record bin, if your
record was at sound warehouse or

at one of these old school Tower
Records. It would be in the

country section, but you're
mixing all sorts of stuff in

there. You got a bunch of rock
players, miles McPherson,

playing the drums for you in the
studio. He's a rocker covered in

tattoos. You know what? I mean,
come on. So your your music is

very genre bending. And that
song that we just played is

called stomp. And is that at
Radio right now? Or was it at

Radio? No, actually,

that song Never went to radio,
but bullet is right. But bullet

is our most recent single, but
on digitally, that's not a radio

yet either. Okay, hopefully,

yeah, so. And then you have
another, a couple of great songs

that our friend Neil Thrasher
wrote. And not only did he What

is the song? It's about a cowboy
man, still a few cowboys left.

Yeah, you can always tell a Neil
thresher melody. You could smell

it a mile

away, a mile he's got a thing.
He has a thing, dude, I'll tell

you why I owe so much to Neil.
He is. I mean, we started

writing over 10 years ago, and
we hit it off, and I knew who

Neil was, obviously on all of
y'all records, you know, I was

like, when we look at the
credits, man, there's, like, my

favorite songs, anyways, just
total God thing. We ended up,

you know, getting connected
through Jim katino When I was

signed at Sony and and then that
deal went sideways, which we can

talk about. But the thing about
Neil is, you know, when you go

in and out of deals and you have
a lot going on, and then all of

a sudden something happens, and
you have a blip, that's the

industry, right? And then all of
a sudden your phone quits

ringing. You know, that's just
how it is. Well, guess what? The

one guy that kept writing with
me, with that one, I didn't have

a publishing deal anymore, and I
didn't have a record deal

anymore before I got the new
one, was Neil Thrasher. Look at

that. And it's like this. Look
at it from his side of things.

You know, I couldn't go at that
time. There's like, nobody going

to radio. And still, really now,
unless you had a deal, you know,

you can't, you're not going to
have a massive thing at radio

without any machine or money
behind you, that's like pretty

much impossible, yeah? So what
would be in it for somebody like

that to spend a massive hit song
writers, wild, widely

successful, to spend days
writing songs with an artist

that has no vehicle to make that
writer any money, because it's a

business to, you know, and

I was gonna say because he did
it, because he saw something,

and he probably had fun. He
probably had a good time doing

he's done it for the right

reasons. We hit it off. And I
never forgot that, where I was

like, Man, this guy's right.
This the, you know, the Neil

Thrasher is right with me. And I
have nothing. It was in between,

shit, man, nothing going on. And
we would write, write, write,

and always talked about working
together in the studio. Fast

forward, he's him and his cousin
Patrick are now producing all my

music, and it's like a better
fit than I could have ever

dreamed of.

Yeah, that Patrick comes up with
some really good drum parts.

I've had to cop some things on
the demos. He. Got a very

musical mind, and the parts are
really, you know, well thought

out. And a lot of times I can't
beat them. So, you know, I just

try to redmonize them a little
bit here and there, but it's the

framework is all laid out, which

is nice. Hit him with a
redmonism.

What would be a redmonism? I

think it's more just like a
spirit and an energy, you know,

just taking whatever is there
and just trying to flock them,

yeah, sell it, you know, like a
door to door salesman. You know

what I mean,

Redmond calling chuckles, the
Richmond all

sorts of stuff people. Because
they'll look at the name and

they'll be like, hello, Mr.
Richmond. Yeah, I get that a

lot, because they just meld them
together, yeah.

What's up? Red Richmond? Yeah,
yours is a very difficult name

to say. Even in the beginning of
this, we probably need to recut

it at some point the new intro,
because I sound like I'm saying

the rich Redmond show. That's
what it is. And the Redmond you

gotta do, oh, yeah. Gotta get
the do out. Yeah.

So support live music, hire live
musicians. Well, heck yeah, man.

So now you had, you had the guys
on your record, mind that

there's, we got these teams for
those don't know. There's these

little studio musician groups.
There's these little cliques of

guys, and they really are, like
some of a second family. And the

amount of time they spend
together, they really are almost

like a first family it's like at
9am every morning, you got to be

at the studio getting drum
sounds. You get your coffee the

you know, the number charts are
passed out, and these guys know

that they got to make magic in a
short period of time. So you had

miles on drums,

yep, this last session, we just
cut a week from yesterday ago,

had miles on drums, bring a Dell
Oh on nice base. Schoenfeld on

electric, oh, I had him Yeah,
Tom Bucha back, Tom lecture,

fantastic. Worked with for a lot
of years. Yeah and Jed. Hughes

on acoustic, Jed, yeah, man,
first time I used Jed. Man. Was

I blown away?

He was awesome. Yeah, anything
with a string, he's got

it. Man and Tom. I mean, Adam
and Tom have been, have worked

with for several years. Those
guys. Is such a great

combination with those two. Love
it. And

if you use a real tambourine, I
will come bring the best signing

tambourine you've ever heard

in your life. I'm here for that.

It's, it's golden. Man, well,
that you can't go wrong with

that team. Man, that is
fantastic. So how did it start

for you? Man, you know, I know
that. You know I listened to

your conversation that you know,
Jim produced on our friends

podcast. Try that in a small
town podcast. You got a super

interesting story. You came up
listening to 90s country, and I

learned that you kind of were,
like, into our stuff. You like

the relentless record, which was
the sleeper record for

us, which I never understood
that, because I would, I'm not

kidding, dude, I wore those
records out. That's massively

Wow. And so yeah. Grew up
strictly, strictly on 90s

country, and then got into rock
and roll and all y'all records.

Eric Church, the early Keith
Urban, Golden Road, all that. Oh

man, what a record. Yeah, Golden
Road and be here. Good stuff,

yeah, but yeah, the relentless
record. Why was it a sleeper?

Was amazing.

Well, we appreciate that, but
that's, yeah, it was just, there

was some, we had a cash on that.
It was, it was, I don't know if

Johnny Cash was like,

break everything on touch,
wasn't it? And relentless was on

there, was back in the cigarette
on there, maybe,

yeah. But relentless was kind of
just like, and there was, like,

there was like, a ballad that
was on there that was a little

bit of a stinker. We it was a
sophomore slump. We were just

like, Oh no, is it over? You
know what? I mean, we

cried, huh? Left until we cried,
was until you cried? Was that

the one? Yeah, that's a good

song. I know it was good song.
Kayla's song, yeah, he was on

that. And I don't mean it was a
bad song, it just it did not

perform like you wanted it to.
But

you know what aged well, yeah,
it does. I mean, that song still

has a lot of relevance it, you
know, brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah, yeah, no. I mean Kayla
songs and Neil's songs. We're in

the

songwriting capital of the
world, so just in those early

days, Jason was being pitched,
so like, hundreds of songs per

record, and then he and Michael
have to get it down to, like,

maybe 50 songs. And they're
driving around, and their cars

are listening to it. They're
waiting it. They're way seeing

what's what they're going to be
singing in the middle of the

night, or when they wake up in
the morning. And then it gets

down to 20, and then we would
cut 15, and then, you know, you

would have three or four singles
off of each record. You know

what I mean. But what? Quite a

process. That's truly how it
works. They're like, they're

literally driving around.

That's why, that's one of
Michael's processes is to just

internalize it's a great because
you're listening to music as a

consumer would, yeah, like, what
is this ear? Is there an earwig

melody? You know, there's only
12 notes. How are we going to

put them together in a way that
is memorable, that the soccer

mom and the account? Dad are
going to attach themselves

to palatable for everybody,

yes, but they're trying to
figure out they're putting

themselves in the prospective
audience, in the shoes of of,

yeah, not necessarily, what
would resonate with me? Yeah,

like Michael, or anybody like
that. Just Yeah, interesting.

Pretty crazy,

Rich. Do you? You've been in
countless, countless sessions.

Do you remember those days of
cutting that music then? Or no,

yeah, you do. Yeah, because,
because, you know, as you were

having that chat with, you know,
with Tully and Kurt, it's like,

you know, we're, we're recording
this all in this same building.

I know that has so much legs and
so much history. It's like, I

mean, Travis tritt did a lot of
his records there. And, my God,

you know that going back to
highway 101, and all the early

70s stuff, the same wood
paneling on the wall, a lot of

the same, you know, microphones,
obviously, the same, coffee

maker, coffee mugs, the building
has burned. The building has

flooded. We keep going there,
because there's something

special and different and like,
almost spiritual about and we

all converge in that one place.
We know what our job is, and and

it's, it's, and it sounds
different from some of the other

high tech places where, you
know, you know the coffee makers

are, you know, the coffee
machines at Blackbird are $5,000

you know what I mean, as they
should. It's, you know, and it's

right next door, but it's just
it is a cool thing to have that

history where it's the, you
know, the same cast of

characters. The only thing that
would change would be there

would be a pool of two to three
steel players that would have

their strengths. If it was a
traditional country song. It

might be one steel player. And
if it was my more forward

thinking, and it required more
like, make the steel guitar

sound like, almost like another
instrument, that would be

another and then three or four
acoustic guitar players would

come in over the years. But for
the most part, it was the same

group of guys, the eight guys on
the floor. Michael Pete an

assistant, and that has changed
a couple times over the years.

And then, of course, all the you
know, the publisher comes in,

the Jason comes in, he might
have a small entourage. There

might be a small video crew
traipsing through, and you got

to make the thing happen. You
got three hours. And we do two

songs every three hours. That's
just an awesome process. And

then the years go by, and you
go, wow, we've got a body of

work of, like, I don't know, 160
70 songs or something. That's

insane. And, and you're aiming,
you're in line to do that, man.

You're, you're at that first
part of your career, which is so

exciting, you know, and you're
on to something. You're, you're,

you're taking country, and
you're taking rock, and you're

throwing it into a blender, and,
and you're like, This is me,

because there was a time in your
career where people were wanting

you to be something that didn't
resonate with you. So tell us

about that

big time. Yeah, I signed a
record deal in 2014

at Sony Nashville, yeah, and a
couple months after I signed,

the CEO got blown out, and there
was a couple months before the

new guy came in. Well, changing
of the guard. When there's a

regime change like that, usually
it's clean house, because the

new guy, right? He wants to come
in and, you know, put his

fingerprints all over him, do
his thing, right? Well, that's

terrible for a new artist,
because it's terrible for

business. Yeah, it's like, where
are we going to live here? You

know what's going on. So I ended
up making it through that cup.

But it was never right. It was
never right when, when Randy

came in, probably because he
didn't have, you know, his stamp

on me, he wasn't the first one
to sign me at the company. So we

cut and cut and cut music. And I
don't know it was like, we

probably cut 18 songs, never
went to radio with anything, and

put out an EP over that five
years, and cut some new stuff.

Everybody was fired up about it,
and then all of a sudden,

something went,

somebody on the higher up said,
Man,

Ben needs to be doing this more
slicked, you know, pop country

at the time was, like, really
shiny shirts, yeah, Ben needs to

be doing this type of thing, you
know. And it's like they called

and said, Hey, wants you to go
back in? And I was like, I'm not

going back in. This is I don't
know what else I would do. This

is what I do, and it's not my
way or the highway I was willing

to bend. But you can't put, you
can't put like, a vocal like

mine, and put it on this super
slick track. It wasn't natural

to me. It wasn't organic. And I
thought, I always thought the

fans would be able to tell in a
second, and it's like, I'll be

damned if I'm going out on the
road every weekend for the next

30 years. Yeah, playing stuff I
can't stand that's not me,

because

if it hits you, are on the hook
to perform that for the rest of

your life. Because country music
fans are loyal, loyal, the most

loyal. Yes, the most loyal,
which is a wonderful thing, you

know, because if you're wearing
a headset Mike, and you're

dancing and you're bye, bye bye,
then you have to go into acting

or something else, because it's
not gonna that's, it's, it's a

snapshot in time where you can
get three, you can get three

decades out of what we do,

yeah, which is amazing, totally
man. And it's like they just

didn't get what I do. And that's
okay, not everybody's gonna get

it, but it said, I've never
chased anything. I just don't

always have done what I do, and
I've pushed the boundaries. I

think it's great that you can
evolve an artist and you know,

but it's like I asked out of the
deal, which was an emotional,

heavy time man who's gonna, who
wants to ask out of a major

record deal, because everyone is

trying to get that thing, and
when you do get it, it is like

winning the lottery. No matter
how talented you are, it's very

difficult to get a

record deal. That's right, yeah?
And that's just the beginning of

everything. And that, yeah, oh
yeah, man, that's just the

beginning. But if you don't have
the right team, right, it takes

a village, dude. You can't do it
alone. It takes the right team

and a village. And if that's not
firing on all cylinders, like

you're gonna have major bumps in
the road, and I knew it, it was

a gut feeling, man, where it's
like, something's not right

here. Gonna go in again. It's
like they just don't it's not

the song, it's not the
production, it's just they just

don't get what I do, and that's
okay. It was time to go, and I

asked out, and thankfully,
walked with some masters, which

was, which doesn't often happen,
because they knew that I had,

yeah, they screwed me around for
a long time and at that, but

you're still the tender age of
maybe 33 years old, which is

amazing.

It's a good thing. Yeah, man,
you get the youth,

and you got a great voice. It
sounds like you gargle with

razor blades. Very very extra,
very marketable.

Oh, voiceover could be in your
your future as well. That's a

little raspy. You got characters
and stuff like that you can

conjure

up, I guess. Don't

spread them thin. Jim, well, you
know

that's that's what I know. Too
much on me. Yeah, that's right.

What's your schedule like during
the week? Do you try to write

every day.

Right now I'm in major studio
mode. Okay, so you're recording

mode. So yeah, like today, I was
doing vocals all day, today with

Neil, with Neil and Patrick,
we're in a good spot. We're

knocking them out. And I'll,
after I leave here and go home,

I will start digging into
writing the solos and intro

riffs, which is, I'll get into
guitars next week, and then I'll

do, and I'll play all the riffs
and lead parts and stuff on

that. But I get pretty in the
weeds about,

you're a guitar guy, I mean, and
that's, that's the thing that

impressed me. I heard you play
that first time, and I was like,

oh, that's, I haven't heard that
in quite

some time. Come along, and,
yeah, since Keith, Keith,

I mean, Brad, was like, Oh,
yeah. But, I mean, here's my

question, what's well, I'll
first ask this as you get into

Guitar World, why, you know the
chicken picking type stuff,

obviously you're proficient at
why wouldn't somebody do, like,

bring in some EVH finger tapping
and all that stuff. Have you

ever tried that, like, in terms
of just a totally different

sound and merging the two styles
to be cool, to get it? That

would be really cool. Because I
always thought, like, you know,

oh man, if Eddie Van Halen ever
did like, a duet with Ricky

Skaggs, Wouldn't that just be
amazing. It would be, don't just

be incredible to have seen you
laughing at

me. Jim is just just, he's
really selling it.

He's rolling his eyes back like
The Exorcist.

He really wants to hear that he
does pleasure. We could do it

with AI. I mean, we totally, I

actually made a picture through
AI of Eddie Van Halen and Ricky

Skaggs. It's some it's on my
Facebook, yeah, my God. And I

said, If only that could have
happened. Because, I mean, you

know, because you have, like,
the Bluegrass really fast

picking and in conjunction with
what Eddie did, I mean, you

know, just revolutionizing the
guitar sound. I mean, that's, I

don't know, totally, so you're
welcome if it works.

I mean, dude, Neil and Neil and
Patrick are, you know, Neil's a

singer, a singer's singer. I
mean, his demos sound like

records like LD would be like,
Wow, I gotta, I gotta beat that.

Or I gotta, I gotta try to come
close to it. Or, you know, it's

just, he's got, like, an unfair
advantage. I mean, he's selling

the song with his he can

really sell the song. So he's
that's got to be pretty awesome

for him to really just, like,
hover over that and make sure

that quality is there. And then
when you go to your guitar

stuff, he's just kind of, he's
overseeing it, right? He's

overseeing it. But he's like,
this, all right, I'll spend a

couple hours, like, getting a
solo, like, right? Where I feel

like I want it, where it's not
phoned in, like it's like, I

feel like it's fitting the song,
right? And then, and I'll play

it, and be like, play again,
play and just start humming a

different melody line in one
certain spot. He's not playing

it, he's doing it in his head.
And then I'll be like, Oh, dude,

I love that. And. Transpose it
into that. So we kind of ping

pong like and Patrick too, but
Neil on the on the melody lines,

and he's such a great singer,
just doing vocals with with them

today. Yeah, it's making me a
better singer. Being in the

studio with guys like that, you
know, can take my stuff to the

next level, because you're
surround yourself with somebody

that's, you know,

surround yourself with
greatness, yeah. Now, when you

do your guitar, so you say
you're writing things, so do you

do? You plan everything, note
for note, and then you've got to

just execute. Or are you going
for, like, ad, you know, Latin,

ad libitum, you know, like we're
ad libbing in the moment. Let's

hear that back. And then you're
just going for it, and then

trying to find a magical one
with both. Yeah, okay, both.

So I'll come in with, like, A, B
and C options before I play it

to them. And it's like, All
right, here's where I'm and it

takes a while to get there, just
because I'm I'm nutty about it,

man, yeah, well, it's for

all time. You're gonna hear
yourself in target. You're gonna

hear yourself in restaurants,
elevators, I hope supermarkets.

I

want to love it when it comes on
as much as I love you know what

I mean? Yeah, and so now play it
for them and see which one. And

then some takes, dude, you know,
it'll take me. I've done that. I

saw those 100 times before on
tape. Oh, wow. Well, tape, but

you know what I mean? You know,
just to get the right one where

it's like, no, that's not right,
the time is not right. Does not

hit me right, or that bend is
not where it needs to be, and

they can fix it, but it's like,
it's not the same. What take

looking for that magic take,
which is in the weeds you could

drive yourself. It drives them
nuts. Ask Neil and Pat next time

about doing guitars for me,

there's actually, if you ever
watch the documentary Metallica

did back in the early 90s, some
kind of monster, no, no. Even

before that, this was they did.
They put out a big box set

documenting the the creation of
the Black Album. Nice. And Kirk

is actually trying to come up
with a guitar solo for the

unforgiven. And Lars is in the
background. And the camera crews

like, getting, you know, trying
to get in, in the moment, takes

of Kirk just trying to find that
solo and get Lars is in the back

listening to this, like,
cringing, because Kirk is, like,

off in left field, yeah. He's
just not fine. He's searching.

And then, like, Kirk, kind of,
you know, you know, Lars is

cringing, doing these kinds of
things and then making sure that

Kirk's not seeing them. And then
Kirk finally looks over Lars is

like but I mean, they spent 10
months in the studio, making

that album, creating the songs.

That's insane. He's not writing
the songs in the studio. Yeah,

that's a world that we're in
today's day and age of

Nashville. We know nothing about
at least, I don't,

for those listening that don't
know, they're nothing. We are

the city of efficiency. I mean,
the musicians are so good here,

and the process is so
streamlined. We are going into

the studio with an agenda,
there's a budget, there's a

timeline we execute. We have to
paint within the numbers. We

gotta make our Mona Lisas in a
certain period of time, which

actually is a good thing. But
wouldn't it be cool to go to a

destination studio sometime,
like, say, in Jamaica, for like

two weeks, and like, get to the
studio till on 11am you've had

your mango and your papaya,
you've had your coconut juice.

You hang out there's catering
and just chilling. And then at

night, you go to the pool that
it's so rare that's never done

that. That's

that would be talk about being
in a creative place, yeah, where

you could turn all the bullshit
off. Yeah? And there is no, we

only have it till here you get
in, locked in, in a creative you

know, it would be unbelievable.
Yeah, it's a dream of mine to

make a record like

that'd be cool. Back to my
question that we never, we never

asked. Answered this. Okay,
guys, why not incorporate those

types of, types of styles, you
know, have you ever done like

the finger tapping thing that he
does? No, I haven't. I guess

that would be a good rule.
That's See, I feel

like, but that was a snapshot in
time. The this, it was the

Sunset Strip. It was, you know,
it was like, it was, it was a

thing. It was a technique that
was attached to that thing.

That's

what made him a Guitar Hero,
yeah, yeah, okay, and that's

what put him on the map. Was
eruption, yeah, right. It's

true. But, I mean, why not try
and bring it in? What would be?

I mean, not only a good two a
guitar player can answer that. I

We're drummers, yeah, so, well,
it's, what's the answer?

Now, man, it might be the same
reason why, like, super fast

double bass is, is going to be
gratuitous and not appropriate

for Ben's music.

Well, true, true. But, I mean,
country is getting very hard

rockified.

No god, there's some bands out
there that are, like, straight

up hanging their hat on, like we
are metal with country story,

country lyric, right?

Yeah. It's very interesting,
yeah. So, I mean, what? What

would be your like, other than,
well, hey, what if I were to try

this? What? What would make you
want to try it? See, I kind of,

I lean in there a little bit
now, actually, just not to the

extent of the tapping, you know,
where I'll do, like, I'm not a

chicken picker. Like, you know,
Brent Mason, let's just say him,

right? He's like, Yeah. One of
the best yeah of all time. My

chicken pick, my hybrid picking
is a little bit, it's not as 90s

country, but there's a flare in
there, chicken camp chicken, you

know, where it's not the full
blown deal, it's just a hint of

there. And then I feel like I
also get a little bit of rock

and like, if you if you listen
to some of the solos and some of

the songs, you'll hear every now
and then there'll be a little

chicken pick and run type of
thing, but then it'll go into,

you know, something that's
that's a little more classic

rock esque. I

think it's great. I think you're
moving the needle. And so who,

who are your Mount Rushmore. I

was going to say, what song made
you pick up a guitar? Ah, yeah,

man. Like, do

you remember that moment? Like,
oh, that's what I want

to do. Here's the thing, dude,
this is crazy for me. It wasn't

a song, so just growing up
around 90s country, but I would,

I would pound on soup cans.
Well, did you start as a

drummer? Right? Yeah, yeah, with
pencils. My folks thought saw

that. It was like, there's some,
you know, some. But nobody in my

family was musical. It's a total
God, nothing. Yeah, no kidding,

I'm the black sheep of the
family man. Wow, yeah, like John

Anderson song. Oh no, yeah.

Crazy. Then my folks got me a
guitar, and I just took to that.

And all all the while, 90s
country was playing. You know,

Black Hawk was early, Tim
McCarthy records, John Anderson,

Tracy Lawrence, Chris Black, you
name it, yes. Yes to all of

that. Not even Brooks, Brooks
and Dunn not even one in

specific, just all of it. And
that's when I got the bug, early

on and heard Brent at the time.
I didn't know a lot of that

stuff was Brent. And I was like,
man, sonically, it sounded so

unlike anything I've ever heard.
Have you gotten friendly with

Brent? No, I don't know him
well. I did session with him

before, and it was fantastic,
and it's awesome, but I don't I

haven't spent too much time with
him.

Yeah, man. And now, what about

vocals? Who was a guy that, or
gal it? That is just like, super

like, whoa.

Vince Gill, yeah. Okay, and I
sound nothing like Vince Gill,

but when you hear I was like,
Oh, my God, seems

like an angel. But, you know,
guitar

wise, too, he makes, makes every
note count, yeah. And place that

Liza, Jane, just feels so good.
You know, like kids come to me,

they want to learn a train beat.
And I say, like, train beats

don't all have to be super fast.
This is a mid tempo, like, Damn

skin, skin game. It on skin. Now
you got to keep that for three

and a half minutes. And it's a
feeling, you know, so, so cool.

Liza Jane, we play that live
sometimes, yeah, yeah, that's

chicken figure. That's a good
one.

Speaking of train beats, when I
did the Huey gig, yeah, we

played Honky Tonk blues, yeah.
Did you notice my train beat?

But it was actually more it was,
it wasn't a left, right, left,

right. It was on the right. Yes.

Like, it just, it's basically a
fast rock beat, but it, you're

mimicking the train going down
the tracks. Very consistent,

very good. Jim. Like, don't stop
playing, Jim. I'm not going to,

yeah, he's good. Now you're the
track Jim. Jim is, I'm not gonna

call him a closet drummer. He is
a drummer, he is a drummer

because once you're a drummer,
you're always a drummer. But he

hadn't played publicly for 18
years, and then all of a sudden,

he plays in this band at the
city winery. And me and my buddy

Luis Espaillat, bass player, we
went and had some flatbread and

watched Jim rock out. Man was
great. He says he was just like,

it was like, wearing an old pair
of shoes. It comes back. You

know,

I took me about three months to
prepare for it, you know. And

it's a good thing that I did,
because I lost my ears halfway

through.

Oh, that's a nightmare. And he
had to play without a click, and

it sounded great. Yeah, we're

playing the tracks with a click,
and everything is your anxiety

level. Like, it was literally,
like, at this age of my life, I

don't freak out about much
anymore. I just literally, it

was right in the middle of a
song. We were going from a

couple days off into boys are
back in town, and in between is

like a New Orleanian shuffle,
kind of things. And I'm I'm

listening to, it's just me and
the piano player, and I'm

listening for the cues that he's
kind of putting because he

wasn't playing exactly how they
did it live, and I was playing

exactly what I listened to, you
know? And all of a sudden, I'm

just, I'm listening to what he's
playing. Okay? He's coming up to

that part, and all of a sudden,
done. I'm going

where he's it's a weird feeling,
right?

Well, it's Oh crap. How do I
tell everybody I have no ears?

Well, good thing that couple
days or boys are back in town.

We don't really need a click. So
I can finish that off from pure

memory. But how are we going to
do want a new drug that's got a

click, that's got tracks video
the whole nine year, the whole

thing is flashing before you're
oh gosh, I'm like, a bad place

to be. It was all memory I had
because I couldn't hear the

band. I mean, I blew my
headphones off. I was playing

just raw what I could hear. You
know, I haven't played raw

cymbal volume in years.

Oh, it's, it's a drum set is
like a jet airliner taking off,

you know, I mean, it's like a
jet airliner was 100 is like 120

decibels. And the average drum
set could be somewhere between,

you know, 85 to 120 the way I
play it's is around 120

thankfully, the singer Roger the
Huey, yeah. I think the same

thing happened to him. He
couldn't hear either, so we're

just looking at each other. He's
like, Yeah, I got nothing

either. I'm like, okay, the show
has to go on. I said

I gotta go on. I had to play it
in those moments. But it's not,

you know, it's not as not a pool
you want to swim in.

That's right, yeah, dead
battery. Dead battery. That's

what it was

in the little box that I plugged
into. Yeah.

Man, didn't even notice it. Jim,
of course, I was talking to a

million people that really
paying attention, but if you're

listening to this podcast, it
means you're already looking to

improve your drumming, why not
level it up in person with me,

when you book a one on one day,
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the world have traveled to
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make your podcast sound like it
should. That was

great. I like that city winery.
It's like it's been there

forever, and in the last year
I've been there so many times, a

nice little venue. Yeah, that's
cool. It's cool thing you ever

played the city never played
there, but I've been there.

Yeah. And then, so what kind of
venues are you doing now when

you headline. So

it's like, we're in the if we're
headlining, it's smaller clubs.

Yeah? It's nice. You know, it's
small. The fans are right there

in theaters. Yeah? I like
theaters. Um, I love playing

solo acoustic in a theater,
yeah? Dead quiet, man. You can

really deliver a song in a in a
setting like that, where it's

like, story, lyric and a melody,
blowing, blowing it down,

natural verb in a place like
that. I, I like theaters because

they're, they're always haunted.
And there's, they're usually

they've been there 100 years. I
don't do ghosts. You know what?

I mean? Yeah,

there's a lot of ghosts in
Pennsylvania,

Gettysburg. Yes, every you ever

see the videos of them driving a
Tesla through Lake Gettysburg,

or cemeteries, because Tesla, it
can pick up pedestrians right on

the little thing that they have.
Yeah, and, you know, people have

driven through, like, old Civil
War cemeteries and stuff, and

they're picking up humans. But
there's nothing there,

what? Yeah, there's a watch.
Look it up on YouTube.

Wow. Another thing to distract
myself with.

So, you know you're, you're, I'm
trying to think with generation.

Are you a millennial?

Yeah, 33 I was born in 92

Yeah, you might be your I'm an
ex.

Yeah, millennial. I guess I'm
just trying

to think so when you go to home
at night and you watch

television with your family, do
you watch YouTube? Or do you

watch, you know, normal TV,
Hulu, Amazon Prime, all that

kind of

stuff. Yeah. So usually, like,
whenever, whenever I'm done

music, when I'm just like,
everything's done for the day.

Be like, I don't know, usually
around 830 or nine, and my wife

will we have a 10 month old at
home. He goes down, sleeps

really good. Oh, that's great,
amazing. God bless you. Put him

down. And then, like 830 or
nine, we'll watch one or two

episodes something, and then
then that'll be it, yeah, but

we're What do you guys watch? Is
there anything good we could be

watching right now? There's a
thing on Netflix

that people are talking about

called the waterfront. Oh yeah.
What happened to primal? Oh

yeah. I there

for a while. I was on this kick
where I just binged this series

called primalism, like an adult
animated series about a caveman

that befriends a T Rex and
they're like best friends. It

was incredibly violent, and I
loved it. That's great.

It's a cartoon. Yeah. We watched
a couple of episodes. My wife

and I. Oh,

like, why are we watching this?
Seal Team,

SEAL team. What's that

on? I don't maybe Hulu, one of
those. Yeah, there's, like, six

seasons or something. Oh, my,
that's the one thing I don't

want to get locked in. If it's
like, yeah,

oh, man, are you guys like me,
where, you know, my wife will

binge watch a lot of she likes
to have stuff on in the

background, yeah. So she'll
watch a lot of stuff while she's

doing other things. But how
could she pay attention

to the plot she does? She's just
got that money that I'm all or

not,

we're men. We can't So, I mean,
it's like, if I am watching

something, it better grab me in
the first five minutes.

Otherwise, I just, I don't wanna
pay any attention.

Six seasons is a massive
commitment, you know, and

especially if you start watching
something at nine o'clock at

night, give me an hour and a
half movie in and out. But if I

open up Pandora's box and I'm
loving a series and you started

at nine o'clock at night,
there's the potential to stay up

way too late and it screws up
your whole day. Next day, it can

be dangerous, yeah,

it can be but be dangerous for
me. I re watch a lot of stuff,

really, yeah, I have, like, the
Marvel movies I've seen hundreds

of times, see

I can't re watch nothing. I feel
like I'm wasting my I'm like,

I'm like, Huh? I was like, I
can't see that again. It was

great, yeah, but I want to see
something else. Yeah,

you'll actually pick up. Like,
when you do stuff and you re

watch stuff, as you get older,
you pick up other things about

those movies. Like, for example,
I'm re watching the matrix all

those movies, I'm picking up a
lot of stuff. Are they missed

before?

Yeah, I can see that. Plus, it's
great to just see people in

leather,

yeah? Well, even latex, yeah,
latex. Have you guys, have you

watched re watch Jaws yet? It's
its 50th,

50th anniversary.

Really need to know? Yeah, it's
coming

out in the theaters at the end
of the month. We should go see

it. Let's go do it.

It'll be a guy's night. We'll go
see jaws, and then we'll go to

Robert's Western world. Because
Jim has never been to Roberts,

never 20. It's like, what's
wrong shot in time, where we'll

wear our pearl snap shirts. You
and I will go matching Pearl

snaps. He's

10 gallon Jim. Yeah, I have a
head big

enough for it. That's

for sure. Gonna get a fried
bologna sandwich and some

crinkle fries. And that occurs
original.

You could have got one at
Paradise park, but it ain't

there no more. Yeah, how's it to
go away? I think didn't

it? Well, I just never got it.
Well, bon Joey's got that new

place that used to be merchants,
that was one of our, you know,

five star restaurants. And now
it's a, it's a really nice

looking stage. The drummer's up
super high, and then the singer

is here. Then there's all these,
like, parapets where people can

stand. It's like a rock concert.
Yeah? It's crazy.

I tell you about my story about
jbjs, when I went there, no, I

got recognized,

oh, yeah, yeah, by a fellow
drummer.

Yeah. It overlooks the drummer.
And my brother and I, and my

brother was visiting, and we
were just hanging out and just

listening to the band, and I
went over to the rail and was

just watching the drummer
because, you know, yeah, and all

of a sudden, he kind of looks up
and

he double takes, you're Jim
McCarthy, hey, you're Jim

McCarthy. Yes, I am, though,
don't ever forget that. Hey,

so Ben, you, you're part of your
coming up and your music

education and getting your
10,000 hours is used to play

prisons. That's, that's an
amazing tell us about this

story, because that is, like,
super cool, super brave, because

I, I have a drummer friend. His
name is Zorro. He played with

uh, Lenny Kravitz for a long
time, but he does motivational

speeches. He actually did a
speech at San Quentin, no kid,

yeah, so you were, but you know
you were doing big boy prisons,

right? State?

That's Max security, Max. That's
where I'm at, Jim, I'm just

kidding.

Yeah, no, we can talk about
that. That's totally cool.

Man. Friend of mine,

back in 2011 his name's Chris
Hall. He worked at one of the

state prisons near where I was
from, yeah and from. And he

said, Hey, man, we're thinking
about doing something different

this year. You ever think about
coming and playing for the

inmates? Said, No, I thought
about coming and playing for the

inmates. Be completely honest
with you, I've never thought of

doing Yeah, no, but it reminded

me of Johnny Cash. And I was
like, All right, man. I was 19.

I was like, I'll go in the first
one Max security. Bring my

speakers in, solo acoustic. 250
inmates, buddy. Yeah, that's

good. 250 inmates in the
gymnasium. I got my speakers set

up half court. Go in there. It
was unbelievable. You could hear

a pin drop in that place. Guys
are hanging on to every word.

The star for entertainment. Man,
captive audience. Yeah, big

time. Where's the symbol? Not
out. No, seriously, it was, it

was really moving experience,
and that kind of spread to all

the other state prisons in
Pennsylvania. So my phone

started ringing to do shows. I
was like, Well, I'm gonna, I'm

gonna start doing a prison tour.
And I've hit just about all of

them. I did it for 10 years, and
then all the ones in the state,

almost. But state, yeah, not.
County ones. These are state. I

mean, it's like, I even get it.
They give me a necklace. I call

it the OH SHIT button. And it's
like they say, Hey, if anything

ever goes down, press that
button. You're you run right

into this room right here, and
it locks and it'll notify all

the guards on the in the whole
prison. They'll come down.

There's no, I've never had an
issue, but there could have

been, you never know, you know,
but the feedback, man, I got and

on, whether it was new songs or
from family members that reached

out, or whatever that had talked
to, whoever it was that was, it

was in guys, you know, sometimes
I get chance to talk to him

after the show. I'll never
forget this. I tell the story

all the time. The dude comes up
and says, Man, I've been in here

for 20 years, and I hate country
music, but I gotta tell you, the

songs just changed my whole
outlook on life. So when I get

here, when I get out of here, I
want to chase my dream too. And

it's like, as an artist and a
summer, that's why you that's

why you do it, to have a
positive impact on somebody

through your music. And you
know, to hear something like

that. And then again, that's,
that's really what fueled me to

keep going back year after year.
You're you got to think, man,

I'm playing songs to guys that
are really in their lowest

point, yeah, you mean the
darkest of dark. You know, in

there, there's some guys that
are, you know, in their 90s,

have been there for life, and
they're coming in on

wheelchairs.

Oh, my God, think about it.
They're institutionalized at

that point. I mean, eating that
food for 90 you remember? You

remember Shawshank, of course.
What? That's a movie for dead. I

like to re watch.

Yeah, that's her definite re
watcher. Great movie.

I'll get messages from,

you know, when I, when I was
doing it, I would get messages

from a family member, hey, talk
to Johnny. What's his name? Last

week on the phone, and I haven't
heard him that happy in 10

years. He said you took him out
of prison for 90 minutes. And

it's like, wow, man. Like, yeah,
that's the, you know, that's the

beauty of music. You know, it's
so universal, whether it's a bar

or a church or in a prison, you
know, to contact, to connect.

You know through lyrics,

sense, it transcends language
barriers, cultural

barriers. No doubt,

you know not to take it to the
drums. But I always, I always

tell my students, like, look at
if you got a mean back beat, you

could travel the world, and you
will experience people, places,

cultures, you know
circumstances, opportunities

will pra will cross your path.
You think it's just just playing

Boom Crack. But if you can do
that, and you could play it at

the highest of levels, and you
elevate it to high art, and

you're a team player, and you
make people's music come to

life, you can travel the world
for free, and doors will open

for you. It's like, it's very
powerful man. You know that's

that's my version of, no doubt,
of of trying to change people's

lives and and you did that, and
you felt that. That guy that

said, hey, when I get out, I
want to chase my did he tell you

what his dream was? But he never
did.

No, but I'll tell you this
several times. I will be playing

somewhere in Pennsylvania on a
public, public show, and they're

at the merch stand. Afterwards,
I'll do a meet and greet, talk

to people and sign. And here
comes somebody and says, Hey,

man, my name is so and so I saw
you at

the Fayette prison in 2013

and I just got out and saw your
coming and wanted to bring my

family. You know, it just meant
so much. You know, it's like

that happened. That's happened
many times. Man, always wanted

to see a full band, because
you're so acoustic. Would never

forget that time came in and
played for us back and, you

know, so it's cool. Man, it was
a is, you know, it's a gift to

be able to go in there and play
and play and share music with,

you know, with those guys. You
did that for a decade. Yeah,

COVID was the last year I jacked
everything up. And so that year

I filmed them in a studio and
sent it, sent each prison one to

where they could play it on the
channel, because nobody can come

in. That's cool, man. That one
was virtual. And then after

that, it was like, I'm not
saying I wouldn't do it again.

I'd love to do an EP live at
such and such state prison would

be cool. But 10 years seemed
like a good that's a good run.

It's a good run. And for now, I
was like, I think I put a cap,

you know, I think

on it for now, go on, on top,
like Seinfeld, you

so, I mean, there was nothing
like no chicken wire, nothing do

you were just exposed to the
prisoners. Oh,

my word. Yeah, it was 15, less
than 15 yards away, wow. And

it's like, I tell you what I
learned a lot being a musician

and an artist. One time I was
playing and I was like, I don't

know, maybe a quarter of the way
through the show, and I don't

have anybody with me. It's just.
Me myself, and I, I broke a

string, and I'm like, All right,
this is the first time, you

know, in a situation like that,
there is no tech, there's no

some way that can hand you
something else. Shows, got to go

on, man. And you got, I don't
know what's going to happen in

here if they get out of hand,
right? You know, you're changing

your string and telling them
stories, yeah, and talking at

the same time. That's the first
time as, like, learned. I'm

thinking, it's like, total
anxiety at the time. How am I

going to keep this going?
Because if I, if I stop playing,

you know, they're not all
friends in there,

but there's guards. There's
guards everywhere, right?

Three guards, three guards,
three guards. And the leg alert

he's got around his neck, three
guards for 250

guys, yeah? And they don't have
any stick. They don't have

anything on them. Because, you
know, if something gets out of

control, then that, then they
don't have them anymore. They're

bare hands. So I do that
definitely. It's not overly

guarded, yeah? So I'm thinking,
all right, I gotta keep this

show going and and this good
vibe that's happening because I

don't want these dudes and these
dudes to start, yeah, oh, man,

oh, so I ended up like, changing
and talking at the same time and

started saying, I think it was
drift away,

give me the B boys free my soul,

and that the whole place is
singing now, while I'm finishing

my you did acapella, yeah, just
while you're getting them

saying,

because I knew they knew it. So
I'm gonna start something

acapella, and that let it is
like they're all feeling it

where, then it's not this
awkward thing, you know? It's

like, show's got to go on, and I
can't lose these guys, or

I don't know what's gonna
happen, right? Right, right.

Music. So this is a savage
beast.

Oh, my God, that's that's how
Dean's go to karaoke song. Are

you serious? Yeah.

So let me ask you, so when
you're singing that song, is

there video of this at all? I
mean,

on YouTube, there's a mini doc.
It's like two minutes long. I

had a guy come in, finally got
permission to bring in a camera

and stuff, which was law like
hoops to go through, and it's on

YouTube, and it's a little two
minute thing, one guy's being

interviewed,

and it shows me going in there
and playing it's pretty cool

piece.

I don't understand if majority
of the inmates were in this one

location, then the guards were
not needed at other locations.

Why didn't they just get a bunch
of guards? I don't know. You

know what I mean. If there's 20
guards in the prison and all the

inmates are at the show, they
should have 20.

No, they're not all at the show.
Oh, I'm playing in front of 250

people. Have a prison that's got
3000 people,

so, like, really well behaved,
most likely, hey,

this is like a, like a

reward, no, even the bad can be
in there. Yeah. I mean, if

you're under, if you're in the
whatever, it's called

solitary, yeah,

I wouldn't last one day, guys.

So the thing is, I gotta ask,
and this is the most obvious

question, I think, especially
knowing what pays well and what

doesn't in your experience in
this industry, not being

specific, were they good paying
gigs at least? I mean, because

you can, you want me to do what
I'm going to make it

worth my while at least? Yeah,
but some shows, you just do it

because you love

it, man, oh, yeah, of course.
But you know, you gotta still

make a living. Yeah,

that's different. Those shows
are just different. They're in a

different category, though,
yeah, philanthropy, yeah,

there's just a different, you
know,

it's more. They gave you chops
as an entertainer.

Learn so much just from that
story manager is stuff like that

was all the time. And then route
one I had, I did have one that

was like, I don't know how this
is gonna go. And they, they

weren't really into I would
play, like, think I broke into

some like, country boy can't
survive, or something like that.

I'd play an old Merle song. I'd
do mostly originals, but a

handful of covers, but they
didn't really like the old

school country music covers, you
know? And I was like, and I

could kind of vibe that I'm
reading the crowd, and I'm like,

All right, well, maybe I'll just
they don't like that. I'll do a

little more, I'll do a little
more rock cup. Maybe I'll do Bon

Jovi, yeah, you know, maybe I'll
do a little something like that,

and laid more into some guitar
stuff. And then by the end of

it, it's like, then they were
all rocking. But it's being able

to read something, you know,
read the crowd and on the fly on

it, which kind of makes you a
little nervous, because it's

like, man, if they're not really
into that. Like, man, I'm kind

of on an island here. Nothing
bad ever.

What's your go to, but what's
your go to? Bon Jovi, one dead

or

alive? I still do.

I just do the I do the intro
riff, and then do like a sing

along thing with a course, and
then I'll break out into some

acoustic jam. Nice.

Who's the one that

he wrote for the movie Young
Guns

blaze of glory. Yeah? Rumor has
it, he wrote it in a diner on a

napkin like just came out of it.
I love that crazy, yeah,

freaking hit song in five
minutes. I know I

remember when computers were
coming in. And people started

like typing or using their
iPhones to write, you know, song

lyrics, a normal thing now, but
it still seemed like it was like

a, you know, you leather bound
book and you're not out. You

know what? I mean, this is a
song, and it needs to be on

parchment, you know. So for you
leather pen, yes.

So for you to write really deep,
connecting music that connected

with prisoners at their lowest
of low, they're, you know, it's

rock bottom for them, especially
at that age, man, I mean, that's

got, you gotta, there's gotta be
an old soul aspect to you, I

would think,

I think like there is, yeah, I
feel like there is, man,

there's got to be because, I
mean, that's you got to have

some life experience to write
about deep stuff.

Are your parents did? Were they
always supportive? Massively,

they sent you to Belmont, right?
You're like, Hey, kid, you got

four years go do the thing. Did
you finish? It's almost still

paying for it. Yeah. I mean,
that's what is it 60,000 a year?

Whoo? No. Seriously paying for
it? Yeah,

I transferred in there. I
transferred into bell on my

sophomore year and finished. I
was on the road most weekends in

advantage of rented a van,
formed a band, which my bass

player is still playing with me
today, and who's your bass

player to be on Cody. Gall is
his name? What's up, Cody? And

then whatever Cody, I'll tell
you what, though, what y'all

have, man, I think any artist
and musician goals, what y'all

have, a team and

like minded people, loyalty, 20
years I've been playing with

Jason, 26

years. 26 years. So I feel like
as a musician, so

I got these, these look at all
these wrinkles that didn't

happen when I was first

started. So much that right
there says so much about each of

each of y'all and for a
musician, it's like that would

be a massive goal to be in a
camp from here, from the bottom,

yeah, and ride it up,
collectively, right? And then

same thing for an artist, to
have a group of guys and you're

locked in. It's so rare. You
guys are, like, the only ones.

It's like, hats off to you. It's
all these special everybody's

goal to have

something starts at the top.
Jason is an incredibly loyal

person, and he's a incredibly
down to earth, grounded person.

He's the same exact guy. When my
parents, Patty and Richard come

backstage, he's like, Hi Patty
and Richard very respectful. He

asks about my brothers. You
guys. Okay, can I get you a

glass of wine? Just a super he's
human being. He really is. Yeah,

I've only

been around him a couple times,
and he's always been just the

nicest guy and saw the earth
just, he's just real man. He

lives.

He's like, actually, when he's
talking to you, it's not just

like, you know, an exercise in
small talk. I mean, he really

is. He's listening to the people
he's talking to. He asks

questions. To ask questions.
Yeah. I mean, that's, that was

our encounter when we got when
you took us backstage, and we

got to, you know, the kid, when

your son was like, when are we
going backstage? Yeah, and is,

where are backstage? There's the
band. Yeah, the band

just walked by. Kids have

this perception that it's like,
almost like some Valhalla. It's

like things are glistening with
gold. It's like, no, it's sweaty

cheese and towels and road
cases. Yeah,

so he was wearing a because
Jason's kids, I think, went to

the same school my kids went to,
and Spencer was wearing a

Chapman's retreat Elementary
School shirt. And Jason point he

was like, Where are you guys
from? Because we saw them in

Charlotte, and we told him, he's
like, Oh yeah, I live over in

Kidron. He told us where he
lived and everything. Like,

okay, dude, I know. I mean, he
was just really pleasant guy.

We're all spring

hillians. Now it's pretty

cool. Wow. Yeah. So do you see a
lot of well, both y'all being

drummers. Do you see more new
drummers, new new cats coming to

town nowadays than you did back
in the day to do this for a

living.

I think the advent of Instagram
and Tiktok and all that stuff

certainly has increased the
appeal. I

think Music City is so on fire,
and country as a culture is so

on fire. It's just like, this is
one of the last cities for the

music business, and like, real
people writing songs in a room

at the same time, session
musicians all on the floor at

the same time doing the thing.
And then, you know, the real

estate prices are going up, and
people are getting pushed out to

the burbs and stuff. But that's
going to happen with the growth.

I don't mind the growth. I don't
mind the growth. I don't mind

that the multicultural input.
Because you are getting guys

from Texas, the Miami,
Chicago's, Atlanta, New York,

Los Angeles. They are coming in
like, oh my god, I could raise I

could raise my kid here. If I
work really hard, I can buy a

house. I can have dirt under my
feet, you know, there's a little

bit of space, so I don't think
it's going to slow down anytime

soon. But as my dad said, you
know, you know, must be present

to win, and the cream rises, you
know. So just be the cream, you

know. Just Just stay. Just
commit until you are the cream.

And it might take 20 minutes to
meet somebody at the airport

that changes your lives, or it
might take 20 years, but you

just got to be committed to it.
And

to your point you were saying
earlier, you might have that

lightning in a bottle thing,
yeah. I mean, it's, don't, don't

discount that. I mean, you're
only how many years in, you

know. So, I mean, you could
certainly have that same kind of

an effect. It's, it could
certainly play out that way. I

think it will. I mean, you seem
like a loyal guy. You seem like

you've got, you've definitely
got a charisma and a

vivaciousness and that kind of
same appeal where you're

interested in other people,
that's a

lot of it. And you love live
music, and you're not afraid to

go out there and take the music
to the people, and people. And

you're different sounding. You
were fascinated with that. You

always were playing on the
weekends while you were in

college. I did the same thing.
Man, it's like, I'm, you know,

studying for a, you know, a
physics test on a Sunday after a

gig, pulling an all nighter,
because on Monday morning, at

eight

o'clock, I get it. Yeah, you did

it. Did it

because, I mean, also, you're
going to have the element of,

there's a little bit of a
homogenization happening with

artists these days. You can't
really tell them from one

another. Some of the newer ones,
at least, I sound the same,

right? You You're distinct
because you got that, you got

that edge to your voice. Read a
gargoyle with razor blades, that

kind of thing. So, I mean,
you're gonna have, you're gonna

be able to have that distinction
that anybody listening to it

comes out. Oh, I know exactly
who that is. So that's like part

of the, you know, the Van Halen
brothers said, if you play

music, make sure people know
it's you. Yeah, you know, I

think that you're gonna have
that nipped in the Bucha, I

appreciate. But if you involve a
lot, a little, EVH, and you're

playing, I'm just Jim,

just loves that.

I need to learn how to do some
of that. I think you should, man

and your label, you know, I

hope that, like, Neil's, like,
What the hell did you tell him?

Why? Why did you tell him that?
Yeah, blame

it on I haven't been reading the
trades. I haven't been listening

to the gossip on the bus. I
didn't know that your record

label, stone country records,
was Benny Brown's. I

know which you have some history
with from the very beginning.

Yeah.

I mean, without Benny Brown, we
wouldn't be sitting here, you

know, it, it just wouldn't
happen. Wow, he's a, he's a fan

of music. He was a, he's a
harbinger of the arts. He

believes. And he gave us chances
to Benny gave us chances to

write, to produce, to you know
what? I mean, he's a song guy,

too. Thank you, Benny. Yeah, you
know, he was trying to make

things happen for quite some
time, until, you know, a guy

with a, you know, hat came along
named Jason Aldean, and it just

all clicked. He

owned car dealerships, right?
Yeah, it was a very successful

car dealership guy, yeah, yeah,
good.

You don't bet against Benny,
nope. No, no, no, great

guy to have in your corner. So
what do you want to promote?

Other than you got these 35
million views, your viral

sensation, you got your big gun.
You got the gargling with the

razor blades. You got the work
ethic. You got the bass player

has been with you for 10 years.
You're in the mix. You got an

amazing team. You got Neil. You

got Pat Patrick. He's got he's
got an amazing wife and child

too. Oh, that's great. Yeah,

keep the wheels on. She keeps
the wheels on. You got to have a

quarterback. You got to have a
quarterback at the house that's

going to take care of things
while you're doing the thing.

Yeah? Or

at least hold out. You know how
it is, man, it's tough this bit.

I have so much respect for
anybody that makes a living on

the road, dude, especially when
you have kids. I'll just learn

that now, dude, I'm like,
pulling out head now going to

work for the weekend, you know,
on the road, yep, you know. And

there's my wife holding our kid,
and he's starting to, like, now

he cries, you know? He's, like,
putting his hand up, and he's

ball, and it's like, Oh, you
want to talk about a weight on a

man, holy shit. You know, we're
and that's the job, right? You

know, it's like, There's no way.
It doesn't make it any easier,

but you got to go to work, you
know? But I have so much

respect. I always have. But then
when you have a kid, you know,

it's like, night. Now I really
get it. There was it could be a

truck. Sorry, go ahead.

It brings me, makes me remember
a story. I mean, this happened

three years ago, when we were
getting this business going. We

did a job, a lighting job, which
is part of what we do here. J2,

lighting. Check us out. J2,
lighting.com, Jim is a process.

We were doing a lighting change
out in Cleveland. We were up

there for about eight days. And
you know, you kind of get that's

part of my background, to be an
electrician and stuff like that.

So I'm up on a lift into my
rhythm and everything, trying to

listen to different music. And
I'm like, Zach Brown Band kick.

And then, gosh, what's the song?
I decided I'm already gonna

dance with my daughter to it at
her wedding. Oh, buddy. It's,

it's basically, you know, I hope
you see the same. Seven Wonders.

I hope you sail the seven seas,
and it's a great song, and I'm

just sitting there, up there,
all of a sudden, the lyrics just

start penetrating. I haven't
seen my family in four or five

days. At this point, I am a
bawling, flipping mess. Oh, man,

it got me hit you like hammer.
Oh, totally did. What song does

that for you now, now that you
have that family you got, you

got the child. There are songs
that I can't sing. Neil's being

one of them. You know, gosh, now
I can't think about the one

bouncing curls. There goes my
life. There goes my life. What a

song. What an amazing song. And
then Kayla's song too, that he

didn't

have to be he didn't actually,

I asked him,

Do you ever get you have to,
just like, emotionally, distance

yourself when you sing that
song. You have to,

because we couldn't make it
through sometimes, right? He was

performing the song at his
daughter's graduation or

anything or something like that.
Yeah, wow,

yeah. Well, I haven't written
one for river yet, um, but I

will. Somebody said, Thank you.
When we were talking about songs

on this next project that we're
working on, he wasn't born yet.

So I said, man, you gotta have a
song about river. And I was

like, right, but he's not, you
know? Yeah, he wasn't here yet.

I was like, not yet. Not yet. I
want to wait for them for the

right time. How many kids you
have? Jim, three. Three kids.

Yeah, wow,

yeah, nice buddy. Ah, guys, I'm
jealous, you know, you get to

experience things, you know
that. But you know,

I love the fact that Ben was
like, kind of overtaking the

interview for a second. He was
like, taking host, asking you

questions. Is there anything you
wanted to ask me by chance? I

mean, no,

that's crazy. So anything else
you want to, like, tell Man,

y'all the world for all

time, yeah, well, we put an EP
out

in May, and we put a music video
out to the song bullet, which

gets a little intense, nice.

But that song changed meaning
for you. Didn't it? It did,

and that's that would be the
answer to your question.

Actually, of any songs, it has a
different meaning. Now, the

song's called bullet. The hook
is, I would take a bullet for

you, you know, literally, but
also metaphorically. I would do

it's loving somebody so much you
would do anything at all for

him. And so that video gets
pretty intense, man. And so

that's part of the EP that came
out of May, and we're in the

studio now. That's it's going to
round the these next six are

going to round out the record
that will come out in the fall,

nice and then touring between
now and then most weekends. And

that's, that's where we're at.
Man killer, really good stuff.

Are you out there opening for
some it's a mix. Yeah, it's

headlines, smaller clubs, and
we're out with Brantley, out

with Gary the box next weekend.

Nice. Yeah, so Gary the box, are
the flats?

Gary the box, not the flats?

Voice over for Gary's last tour,
to promote his last tour. And

Jim coach, are you serious,
yeah? Gary levox, yeah. So you

know, occasionally I will do
some voiceover. Ghost you Yep.

Jim is a voiceover man,

because you came from radio.
Yeah, don't, don't hold it

against me. Do you miss it? Do
you miss any of that? No,

because I do it anyway with
podcasting. Podcasting,

it's radio, yeah, this is radio
2.0 it just pays way

better. It is crazy. So can't
complain

with that. Jim, no,

it's, it's my superpower. This
is what I do, and voiceover is

part of that.

So, yeah, no, we are. We're all
multipreneurs, as they say

nowadays. Have to be. Yeah, I
hope to see a show. Hey, man, I

hope you. I hope things explode
to the point where you're out on

the road with us. Man, that
would be a dream, right there

and there. There might be a day
we'll open for you no man, or a

big double bill or something.
Man, but I'm just so blown away

by your spirit, your work ethic,
your great voice. We had a good

time playing that song. We were
just doing like a sound check to

make sure we were comfortable
with levels. I

don't know that's up to y'all,
but, man, you're the one that's

holding it

down. I mean, it was really fun.
I mean, you're a machine. The

chart was correct, ladies and
gentlemen, I care so I did a

chart. There's stomp right
there. Anybody wants to know how

to do the chart that way you can
just jump on stage with

you know, man, if there were
only just a course there is show

me,

Jim is going to film my music,
reading and charting. Course

we're going to do it. We're
going to film it before the end

of the year. But right now I'm
getting into the heaviest part

of my year, the touring season.
And, you know, I'm gone

Wednesday through Sunday, so
when I'm in town, Monday through

Tuesday. Just occasionally you
need to, like, not do something,

yeah, but usually we end up
doing something anyways. You

know, can't shut it down. Man,
no. Machine. That's a busting

and a curse. But is it usually
not an off switch in our worlds?

Nope. And it

never retires purpose. That's if
you, when you the day you lose

that off switch that I don't
know why I'm getting out of bed.

That's a bad day. Yeah, there
really is a bad day. Yeah, I

don't want that ever to happen.

And I was, you know what? I was
just up at in there's this great

then it's the number one music
education site in the world. Now

it's called Muse Zora,
muzora.com and they, huh, they

have a website where they teach
guitar, bass, keyboards, vocals.

And then the drum Parson portion
of it's called drumeo. So

drumeo.com drumeo has been there
forever and ever, and it's

outside of Vancouver, and it was
amazing. I just get to give

props, and thanks to everybody
you know. Jared Falk started

this company a long time ago,
his friend Brandon Aaron, they

had me in. We filmed all this
content for their website, for

their socials, and then we did a
bunch of educational content for

like, their training portion,
but it is just people are

learning music online now. It's
an incredible and eventually

they probably love to have you
up there to perform your songs,

to do like a little mini master
class. Or they'll have a guy

that'll interview you, like,
show me. Or, you know, I mean,

you break it down for the kids
and it'll be all written out.

They fly you up there. They
spoil you. They put you in a

nice hotel. It's great. I just
had an amazing time, but I see

that they would love to have

you. That'd be awesome. You.
Zora.com I gotta check it out.

Yeah, that's really cool, man.
It's such an honor to be on here

with y'all. Big time. Likewise,
seriously, dude,

yeah, thank you for spending
this time with us, everybody.

Jim.com Yeah,

Ben gallagher.com. But not

Gallagher. Ben gallagher.com
he's huge on the socials support

his music. We just played stomp
2,302,100 streams. And then we

got to catch bullet. Bullets. We
just, we got to get it up there.

It's, it's new. It's brand new.
So everybody stream bullet

request,

yes, I love it. It's going going
for ads. So fun. Thanks

for suggesting this, young man,
come on our show. Yeah, buddy,

the honor is mine. Fellas, keep
doing and keep changing lives,

Man, y'all too. We're just it's
great to know you, man. Thanks

for coming on the show, Jim,
thanks for your time and talent,

course, and to everybody out
there in listener land. We'll

see you July 19 and 20th at the
Musik city drum show. Monday,

July 21 we'll see. I'm doing a
drum clinic. 6pm drumsupply.com.

Be sure to subscribe, share rate
and review to help people find

the show. We appreciate you.
Thanks. Ben, thanks, Jim. See

you guys.

This has been the rich Redmond
show. Subscribe, rate and follow

along at rich redmond.com,
forward slash podcasts. You.