The Rich Redmond Show

Unknown: When you're in your
bedroom and you're like, you're,

you're like, 1516, years old.
You're like, I want to be a

professional drummer. I want to,
like, tour and like, you know,

and then, like, what actually
like, I never, I know you you

can relate. I never, ever
envisioned, ever playing in

front of, you know, like half of
a million people in Russia,

like,

I can't say that, but that's,
yeah, that's a big crowd, bro,

dude.

I mean, just just the, you know,
just the things that come about

that are like, Man, I had no
idea that I would be here or do

this or do that, or wind up
playing with, you know, Dead

Kennedys and, like, just, you
know, like, whatever it's, it's

just, it's, it's, it's, you

stick around long enough these
and you're a good person, and

you like, you know you got a
firm handshake, you know, you

got a great smile. You're a
likable person. You know what

you're doing. You know, you show
up on time. Your check. You

check all the boxes, buddy. Of
course, somebody's going to want

to ride a bus

with you. This is the rich
Redmond show.

What's up, folks out there in
podcasting land, you hipsters,

you rockers, your jazzers, your
folkers, your songwriters,

producers, engineers, whoever's
listening to the show, we do

appreciate it. Hey, it's a solo
show today. My co author, co

producer, I said co author,
we'll probably write a book

together. CO producer, co host,
Jim McCarthy. Jim McCarthy,

voiceovers.com, it's your
show.co. He's on vacation. I

mean, occasionally we got to do
this thing. I'm not going to see

a vacation until maybe the last
week of August, and even then,

we'll see if it happens like,
you know, you take a vacation,

you retire, that's when you die.
You gotta keep moving. You gotta

keep grooving. You gotta do this
thing. My mom, she's like,

pushing 80. She's like, working
out two hours a day. She keeps

an immaculate garden. She's in
the Martini club, she's in the

pottery club, she's in the line
dancing club, she's in the

shelling club, and she's like,
vibrant. She's living so anyway,

super excited about today's
guest, because we go back. We

got history in the Los Angeles
and now in the 615, Nashville,

hailing from a little town
outside of St Louis, Pacific,

misery, Pacific, Missouri,
calling uh LA home for 21 years,

Nashville, coming up on four
years. Great friend of mine.

He's a super versatile drummer.
He's played with punk legends,

the dead, Kennedys, pop stars,
tattoo a blues legend, Geneva.

Is that right? Steve, Jennifer,
I'm so sorry, Jennifer, because

I would probably be side stage
at some point, watching you do

that, you know, at some point.
And also, uh, country rocker

Mark McKay, who we share credits
with. We can, we could talk

about him, but, um, I'm talking
about my friend Steve Wilson.

What's up,

buddy? What's going on? Baby?
Good to see you, dude.

Have you like, Have you listened
to one episode of this show

ever? Do you know what you're
getting yourself

into? I you know, I might have,
I might have pulled some stuff

up and taken a look. And I gotta
say, Man, I'm so excited that

we're finally getting to do
this. Because I know we've been,

we've been playing the schedule
back and forth.

It's like herding cats. I
learned that in the south

someone's like, Hey, man, it's
like, Chad Cromwell told me,

it's like herding cats. We
finally got I was like, What do

you it's just the thing, you
know, because cats are pretty

they're pretty hard to herd,
yeah, yeah, they're not herd

animals. But we're so busy, and
Nashville has become such an

urban the spread, this urban
spread, that we're just like,

You know what? Let's just zoom
this thing, man. So we're doing

it. So if you guys that are just
listening, Steve is killing it.

He's in his voice over studio.
He's got tons of drip on, of

course. He's wearing the black
tee. That's what we do as

drummers. We wear the, you know,
the black

tee, yeah, well, you know, I
mean, it's a uniform.

But listen to those pipes, guys.
This is, this is like we all got

to have. We're multipreneurs
nowadays. Of course we love the

drums, of course we love music.
Of course you want to play live.

Of course we want to record, we
want to teach, we want to do the

thing. But Steve realized that
he had these pipes, and that's

actually, is that how we met the
pipes thing, doing the

voiceover,

you know? I think it was, I
think I think we talked drums,

like third or fourth, you know,
like, I think we were hanging

out. We were hanging out the bow
and the rainbow in LA and our

good friend Jason Sutter,
introduced us to one another,

and I just remember you and I
were chatting it up. And we

wound up going back to Jason's
house, a bunch of us after the

bar closed, and I remember I was
reading, like a bottle of it.

You're like, read this, read
this. It was like a bottle of

like, Heinz 57 ketchup. And you
were like, and I'm like,

read me the ingredients.

I just remember, you know,

of course, we were sober and and
I remember just trying to. Like,

read, Sal, see, salt, yellow
dye, number 15 and but you were

like, early on, one of my
biggest supporters. You're like,

dude, you've got a day when I
would go six months without

seeing you, and you would be
like, are you, you know? Are

you? Are you auditioning yet?
Have you got an agent? Are you?

Like, what are you doing? You

know, we got to do that for each
other, you know what I mean. But

it's like we do, but I

but, yeah, that's you were one
of my very earliest supporters,

which I appreciate. And we
still, every time I see you, we

still talk about vo because you
were, you were doing acting and

like you were, like, really,
like, yeah.

So, you know, it's so, you know,
it's funny is, is that it's,

it's like a very Bob Seger kind
of moment. It was like, this is,

like, one of those Hollywood
nights. It's like, you know,

you're on, you're on the strip,
and like, they kick you, you

know, LA is a relatively roll up
the streets, kind of early town.

People don't know that, but they
kick you out of these places.

And then where do you end up?
You're going to end up

somewhere, right? So you end up
in one of the boroughs. So we go

to North Holly, North Hollywood.
We're doing the thing. We're at

Jason's house. You're reading
the back of a Heinz 57 ketchup

bottle, you know, all the
genetically modified

ingredients. And, you know, then
I'm like, like, Hey, man, we

should, like, we got to support
each other with this thing.

Because, yes, at the time I was
studying, you know, improv

comedy, voiceover, TV hosting,
you know, cold reading, like,

all the stuff I was like, You
know what? Maybe there is

something that I could do with
this outgoing personality, still

trying to do it little. I don't
know if you've known this, but

I'm sure you feel the pain. It's
just really hard to do 80

auditions a year and ride a tour
bus and live in airports and all

that kind of stuff. But I'll
tell you afterwards, but I do

have a new part coming up, and
it's very closely related to the

music thing, you know. So I'm
probably going to be playing a

drummer, but it's a real
Hollywood film, and it's

filming, and so you know what?
Hey, let's, let's do it, you

know?

Yeah, that's amazing, yeah. I
mean, I, I always thought that,

like, I saw your, you're real,
you sent me your real you sent

me your voiceover demo. And,
yeah, dude. I mean, it's, it's

there, it's just like, you know,
we didn't wake up and we could

play the way we play now. I
mean, it takes 10s of 1000s of

hours and years and years to get
good at this. Yeah, so, dude,

so good. So we'll get back to
the voiceover, because that is

fun. I mean, if you if anybody's
just listening, I mean, listen

to that baritone. That is
incredible. And, and I know the

kind of work you do, you do a
lot of auditioning, you do

studying, but you know, you you
read, like, textbooks and like,

you know, instructional things
that are like, insert slot A and

the slot B, and I'm like, God
bless you, buddy, because that's

there's a little thing called
patience.

Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah,
whoa. If you're

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But hey, let's go back St Louis,
outside of St Louis, Pacific,

Missouri. I love this timeline.
At you taught yourself how to

play the drums at four, you got
your first set of drums at 11.

You joined your first band at
13. It's all odd numbers here,

except for the four. You got
your first gig at 15, and then

your first recording session at
17, and then it was downhill

from there that it was all
downhill from there. So tell us

about the love affair with the
drums. What sparked it? Was it

like a thing you heard? Did you
have brothers or sisters that

were like, dude, check this out.
Houses of the holy What was the

thing?

Yeah, I was very fortunate to
live in a house surrounded by

me. Positions. My dad plays
guitar, sings. He played

locally, wedding receptions. He
played, you know, the honky tonk

around town. My uncle Wayne was
a bass player. He played for

Stonewall Jackson. He actually
lived here in Nashville in the

70s and the 80s, played the
Opry, played the Ryman, played

the and then played the Opry in
74 when it opened. So he was my

first, like mentor, and, like,
my biggest, like inspiration,

like he, you know, he came home
from Vietnam, and was like, What

do I have to lose, you know? So
he's, like, I lived through

that. So he packed up. And, you
know, my aunt and they moved to

Nashville, and they lived here
for, I think, the better part of

15 years. But, you know,
Thanksgiving and Christmas time

was always like, hitting him up
for stories about, like, you

know, what was it like when, you
know, so that was kind of like

the real early on, and with my
dad being a musician and then me

taking a liking to drums. I
just, you know, you've heard it

a billion times. You know, we
all beat on stuff walking, you

know, moms, pots and pans and
things like that. So they just

got me, like, a little JC
Penney's catalog, like, as we

all started out on. And I just,
you know, beat that to death.

And then, yeah, Dad finally,
like, bought me an actual set of

drums when I was 11, and then
joined a band at 13 with guys I

knew in school. But I was also
fortunate. I mean, me and you

were not too far apart, you
know, that time of the MTV era

was for a kid to be 12 or 13 and
having, like, being able to

watch headbangers ball or like,
or it just in rock videos. And

that was just like, that was
like, a just a great not talking

smack about anybody that's, you
know, 13 now, but I'm just

saying that was a really golden
time to be a kid and music and

in rock and in country too. And
I should also add, my sister

was, like, she's as far as,
like, where I get my taste is,

is, you know, we're listening to
Leonard Skinner, then it's

Madonna, then it's heart, then
it's and then it's George Jones,

and it's like, it's pop, it's
country, it's hard rock. And she

has, and still does, has, like,
this really eclectic taste,

like, before everyone would say,
you know how, like, you ask

somebody, Hey, what do you what
do you what are you into? What

do you listen to? This? Like,
everything. Well, she was saying

that in 1985 when people were
like, well, I don't like rap, or

I don't like country music. So
she

was, she saw the humanity. And
that was like a cross pollinated

all the music, which is, that's
a, that's a great sister to

have. And, you know, so you're
12 or 13, so you know, MTV is

pop in your pubescent So, is it,
was it, was it Nina Blackwood,

or was it

Martha Quinn? It was, actually,
I'm going to go with Martha

Quinn and and I got, you know,
and then Adam curry and Ricky

rackman were, like, they were,
like, staples of, like, my

weekend diet, you know, like,
with the Hard Rock stuff, but

like, yeah, Nina, for sure, Nina
sound

like she gargled with razor
blades. I did meet Ricky rackman

at the the the bow one night. He
was, yeah,

yeah, yeah. He's a super nice
guy, yeah, um, so yeah, that's

um, that's kind of how that and
then um, you know, like we all

did, like school band. I
marched. I played in the concert

band in the winter time. We did
the halftime shows at the

football games and the in the
fall. And then joined a joined,

joined a rock band when I was
13, some friends in school, and

it just kind of just blossomed
from there I was, I was playing

practically every single day
from the time I was, you know,

13 until, you know, now, I mean,
I never

play you're playing along to
records, which is a great

education. But then, because of
the academic experience in

school, you could read music,
and you understood about playing

crash cymbals and playing the
bass drum. And hey, kid, here's

a glockenspiel. And here's a
scale on a glockenspiel. And

this is how you play a
tambourine, like that. Stuff is

all just invaluable. It's in
there, man, you know, which is,

you know, I think that's a
perfect combination for someone

who's going to have a life in
rhythm, a life in music, you

know,

absolutely, and it was, I had a
really amazing he's still a good

friend of mine. I had an amazing
high school band teacher. And

you know, in our formidable
years, we all need that. It's so

important because you can go
left or right, you can go, I

hate this. You had a bad
teacher. Yeah, and it can be

disastrous, right?

So you're still in touch with
this person, and they must be

proud if they come to a show
ever.

Yeah, he he hasn't been out to a
show yet. I did get to play. I

was so touched last year. Was it
last year or was it two years

ago? I think it was two years
ago. He invited me to come and

play his retirement. He retired
after 30 years at the school,

and he invited some alumnus so
and I got the call to go and,

like, swing a big band, which I
hadn't done since I was at MI

with Steve Houghton watching me.
You know, like,

wait a minute when you were at
Steve, when you were at MI,

Steve, how was still there?

Houghton came by. You know, they
would do like the guest, you

know, you've guessed it at pit.
So, like, Houghton and Gary

Chaffee would come through and,
like, and it was, it was a who's

who's it was. It was a lot of
fun. But yeah, there I was. And

so, yeah, he Mr. Soko, and hit
me up for that. Still calling

Mr. Sokol. Matt. Hit me up for
that. But he was very, uh,

influential even after I, um,
graduated from school. I was

looking at MI and was like, hey,
what do you think? And he was

like, I he's like, I'll deep.
I'll help you with anything you

need to get, like, whatever
audition or whatever you need to

get together. I'll give you a
hand. Because he's like, I think

it would be a good move. I I've
met Greg Bissonette at a clinic

in St Louis one night, and I
asked him about it, and he was

like, Yeah. He was like, yeah,
it's good. You know. I was like,

one of those people. I'm not so
much anymore, but at 1819, I was

like, I had to ask five or six
people to make sure it was okay

before I jumped because, you
know, I'm moving from a town of

back then, 5000 people, and I'm

thinking Hollywood Boulevard,
Hollywood and Highland. I mean

literally, like off of Hollywood
on Cherokee, like off of

Hollywood Boulevard, yeah. So it
was a very, you know, I know you

can relate, man, you think back
to what you did when you were 21

and you're like, I, how did,
where did I find the courage in

the in the chutzpah? Did, yes,
make such a huge move like that?

And, brother, you did it. You
did it. And that's and that's

something that that seems to
fade in our years, two things

fade, our innocence and our like
our our insights as children are

just so pure in the way we see
the universe, and the fact that

we think that we can just do
anything, and then our throw

caution to the wind and just
bravely dive into the deep end

of the pool. It gets harder and
harder as these, you know, we

start to have spouses and
offspring and bills and

mortgages and stuff, and they're
like, Well, I'm confined to

this, and I gotta have water
cooler talk every Monday,

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday, and then I'm living for

the weekend, you know, dang
gang. So, you know. And then you

know what I mean, but it's like,
you dude, you did it. So that

was, that had to be, because
we're six years apart. So that'd

be, like around 1994

that was, that was actually 98
that I made the move. I made the

move, I made the mistake. I
would have gone sooner. But, and

I'm not talking like if you're
in, if you're in a band, if

you're listening and you and you
and you believe in your band,

and you think there's promise
there, don't, don't quit your

band. But I was in a band with
the guys that I was in with from

high school and and I was, I
stayed around St Louis for a

couple of years after I got out
of high school, and it was my

guitar player's father who made
him join the Air Force. He was

like, you, you're gonna, you're
gonna go into the military if

you're not gonna go to college.
And it was because he quit and

went into the Air Force. And I
was flipping through a net like

an issue a Modern Drummer one
morning, and found and found MI.

And I was like, Hey, Mom, I you
know, because I was doing

community college and I hated
it, I was gonna go for audio

engineering and stay in Missouri
and just study at Webster

University and study audio
engineering. But I wasn't really

feeling Community College at
all, and I and I saw an ad for

MI and back then, you, you, they
mailed you a catalog. They

mailed you literature about the
Yeah, and my mom, who worked

three jobs and is my biggest
hero, she was like, let's go out

and look at the campus, which
was a big deal for us, you know.

I mean, like, it was a big deal
to book two flights, go out,

walk the campus, went and also
checked out, LA, Ma, you know,

where,

property and all that stuff,
yeah,

you know, and looked at that,
but I was like, coming from a

small town in Pasadena, was
like, kind of the same as it

felt the same. And I got to
Hollywood, and it was exciting.

It was exciting, and I got to
go, and I toured the campus, and

I and I got to go audit some
classes, and that's where I met

Ray luzier. And. Yeah, Ray was
so sweet to me. He I was just

audit, auditing a class, and he
got me up in an LPW to like,

he's like, you want to play,
come on, you know, like, and

that sounds like Ray. He's just
so inclusive and kind and the

sweetest

guy ever and, and we're still
buds to this day with like,

going on, geez, going on almost
30 years so, so I just had a

really good experience. And
then, you know, and once I got

there, I just immersed myself in
it, man. I mean, I got the and,

you know, you know, at North
Texas, you know, I got the good

fortune my mom afforded me to
play drums all day, every day,

for a year and a half before I
met the people that are

responsible for who I'm playing
with now, and I just had a

chance to go out on tour. And
you know, a year and a half of

school, and I was all right, I'm
ready to apply what I've

learned, and that's and that's
what I did. And I really just

never looked back, and always
had, like, enough work and bands

and stuff like that in Los
Angeles to kind of

keep me there. And it

always okay. So what was what
was that? What was that, Steve,

what was that? What was that
first opportunity that took you.

So I originally was working with
Dave Weiner from the Steve vi

band. He was him and I went to
school at the same time, and I

helped him. We got his demo
together, which got him the VI

gig, and he played with VI. He
only recently stopped playing

with Steve, I think, a couple
years ago. So he had that gig

for decades, and

he's seen a lot of drummers come
and go from that the laborious

and the Virgil's and the all the
summers that go through that,

yeah, yeah. Jeremy Colson has
had it for a very long time. I

believe Colson

has been there for a really long
time. It was man Genie before

Colson, and then, like you said,
Virgil did a stent,

and, you know, Chris fray, our
buddy Chris Frazier,

but so Dave and I were, we're
still very close friends, but

I'm I'm walking dude, true
story, I'm walking to school.

I'm on Hollywood Boulevard, and
this crazy guy with dreadlocks

runs up to me, and I've got a
Pantera shirt on and, like a

Zildjian baseball cap. And he
was like, you like metal and you

play drums. And he gives me a
tape. This is like, 1999 he

gives me a cassette tape. He was
like, You should audition for my

band. I'm looking for a drummer.
And I'm like, Cool. And I went

and I listened to the music, and
I thought it was, I thought it

was decent. It was like, punk
meets metal. It was like, this

kind of mashup of the two. It
wasn't like, this was gonna get

played on the radio. It was
just, I kept the tape and I

thought, you know, I was like, I
kind of hold it home. I didn't

really, I didn't call him back.
And then, like, a month later, I

see flyers up at school, and
it's drummer needed van for tour

us, tour vans warp dates. And
I'm like, It's the it's the same

guy. It's the same guy with the
tape. So I Well, I'm like,

Christ. I'm like, if they're
playing war more, I want to

celebrated its 30th anniversary.
Oh man, jeez,

oh man, that's that makes me
feel old. They so then I was

essentially, it sounds bad, but
I was incentivized. I was like,

okay, and I went in and I
learned the stuff and I and just

went ahead and, you know,
auditioned, got the gig. We went

on. That's that strike that that
started my relationship with Dh

pelegro, and I've worked with DH
for man, like, five years in his

band, he had a trio called
peligro that he did when he

wasn't playing with Dead
Kennedys

that rest his soul man. He died
in 2022

20 October of 22 so we

they had been in in, involved in
a lawsuit for years with their

with their former singer for
fraud. He had embezzled, you

know, quite some, some dirty
dealings. Well, they they want

that. So this is like 2001 the
the Dead Kennedys. They won

their lawsuit, and they went
back at they won the rights to

the name, and they went out on
the road. And I was still

playing when dH is banned, but
he was like, hey, I need a tech.

So do you want to come out on
the road with me? So that's what

I did. And that was my first
taste of, like on the other side

of things. And it was, it was.
Interesting. We were friends, so

it was cool. It wasn't it, it
wasn't, you know, anything too

stressful, but he would
disappear at sound check. He

would go get a cup of coffee, or
he'd just go walk around, and

I'd set up his drums, and the
guys would pee like, hey, we

use, we need to run a couple
tunes. You know, this is back in

the floor wedges days. They're
still on wedges, by the way, but

like, we need to, like, get
sounds. So I just started doing

the sound. I set the drums, tune
them, do the sound checks, I did

everything but play the gig. And
they just kind of remembered

that. And their tour manager at
the time, who's still a good

friend of mine, he he remembered
me when this is like, some years

later, they couldn't find DH.
He, he had gone kind of off the

grid. Turns out he needed some
personal time, but they had

shows booked, and I'm in Europe,
and the tour manager calls me on

and he's like, when are you
back? And I'm like, I'm back,

like, tomorrow. And he was like,
can you learn the DK set in,

like, five days. And I'm like,
Well, I'm pretty familiar with

it, and I'm on tour, so my chops
are already together, you know?

And I come home and in five
days, I would shed their whole

their whole cat, their their
set. And in less than a week,

we're playing House of Blues.
Anaheim sold out. So this was,

this was, uh, in 22 this was in
oh five. Oh, my God. So this is

an oh five. So 20 years ago, 20
years ago. I've been involved in

that camp for 25 if you include
my my years as a tech, it's 25

years. So, um,

amazing, but it's an amazing
relationship. And you, you won

the trust and the hearts and the
minds of the the powers that be,

and you were always there for
your friend, and you played

drums for him when he had a solo
thing. You set up and tuned his

drums, you filled in for and
then, then, then, then you're

doing the thing with the guy,
yeah,

yeah. And I thought it was going
to be like, like, essentially,

like, one off, like, like,
because they couldn't find it,

you know, and they were going to
be in big trouble if they didn't

do these shows, legal problems.
And it went well enough that

they booked another run with me,
you know, five. So we did

another run in Florida, and that
was a blast. And then it was,

like, Rich. It was weird. It was
like, it was, I mean, it's, it

was crickets for like, a decade.
And in that 10 years, I had to

do some other things. I got
involved in, like cover bands,

top 40 cover bands. I always my
dream when I moved to LA was

like, because I, you know, I
love Van Halen, I love Motley

Crue, I love guns and roses. I
mean, that was the stuff that I

grew up listening to, and I
always wanted to be in a band,

you know, like, I'm gonna get in
a band. We're gonna make

records. We're in tour the
world, we're gonna conquer,

right? And I thought that that's
what I would would was my

destiny. That's what I wanted.
But um, through school, um

through going through MI and
learning styles and learning

learning how to learn, like,
learning how to actually learn

material chart, you know, the
things that the invaluable

things that we learn as side
guys. I learned how to do that

and I needed work. So I was
starting to work in like top 40

circuit and playing in original
bands. But what I had learned is

that I can, I'm pretty good at,
like, learning other people's

music, like a lot, you know,
like, I can listen to a song a

few times. I can make a chart,
and I can usually display it

down on a good day, on a good
day. So that was a skill set

that I had no idea, that I
possessed when I got to LA but

that that became a very, very
useful tool, when, when I

learned the DK set, and then,
you know, years later, I got

referred To back when God rest
his soul. Barry squire. Barry,

his list. I had been hearing
about his I heard his name from

the time I got to LA man. They
were like,

tell our listeners the

the the iconicness of that
gentleman, and really kind of

what he

did. I Okay, I'll try, because
he was a very, very super

important figure, not just in LA
but in just in our music

industry in general. So Barry
was a, was a drummer originally.

He's a dream. Yeah, he was a
drummer. And he and I'm gonna.

Give like a very kind of
abbreviated definition of what

he did. He was the liaison
between bands and record

companies and management
companies and hired musicians.

He was the guy that put you need
a drummer record company,

management company calls Barry
like, we need a drummer for this

band. And boom. You know, he
was, he was the synergy, he was

the glue. He was the guy that
made, made things happen again.

That's he did a lot, lot more
than that. And we just lost him

late last year, late last year,
but, but that's a very like I

said. That's a very abbreviated
definition of what he did. He

his list was a very coveted in
the early 2000s it was a very

coveted thing to get on his
list, and it was hard to do

like, I couldn't put I couldn't
recommend you rich, right?

Because we're drummers, so, but
if I played bass, I could, so

you had to come referred from
someone that did not play your

instrument, because we're all
buddies in the drum circle,

right? But, and I got
recommended, and I and I went

out and I auditioned, my first
audition, and I got the gig,

which was great, because I knew
I was auditioning for him and

the band. So I got, I got the
gig. Couldn't take the gig due

to some we just have just bottom
line it was, became. It came

down to, like, money and my
schedule and so on and so forth.

So it didn't work out, but it
was great that I got the gig,

because I for years after that,
he called me for a ton of stuff,

and I'd say half of it, I got
nice, or at least got on the

short list, but that's how I got
the call for this Russian pop

group called

tattoo, who T, A, T u,

correct. And they were really,
really. Their heyday was like 99

2000 2001 like that era they
were. They did, they did the

Tonight Show, they did Conan,
they, I don't think they ever

did SNL, but they, they were the
first record did very, very,

very well. I think it sold
something like seven or 8

million copies worldwide.

It was very like, quasi
evanescent, you know, gigantic

loops, gigantic guitars, big
synths, you know, big Gosh. And

I saw some video out there.
You're like, it was a global

tour. Was it not? Yes, it was.
It was 20 countries. So you

went, you're going to Russia,
you're going to the Eastern

Bloc, you're going to

Japan, Dubai, like

we played in Egypt, nice. I
mean, we went, we went, like,

when I say we went everywhere.
We played in Armenia,

you're like, you're like, set up
in front of the Sphinx. And

you're like, hey, it's not as
big as,

I mean, when we think about, I
know you can relate. When you're

in your bedroom and you're like,
you're, you're like, 1516, years

old, and you're like, I want to
be a professional drummer. I

want to, like, tour and like,
you know, and then, like, what

actually, like, I never, I know
you you can relate. I never,

ever envisioned, ever playing in
front of, you know, like half of

a million people in Russia.
Like,

I can't say that, buddy. That's,
that's a big crowd, bro,

dude. I mean, just just the, you
know, just the things that come

about that are, like, Man, I had
no idea that I would be here or

do this or do that, or wind up
playing with, you know, Dead

Kennedys and, like, just, you
know, like, whatever it's, it's

just, it's, it's, it's, um,

you stick around long enough
these and you're a good person,

and you like, you know, you got
a firm handshake, you know, you

got a great smile. You're a
likable person. You know what

you're doing. You know, you show
up on time. You're check, you

check all the boxes, buddy. Of
course somebody's going to want

to ride a bus

with you. Wow. I appreciate
that, brother, I do. I do. I

know I it's but, but the bit
Just, just to kind of like,

close it up with with them.
They, they were like, that was

the tattoo thing through Barry
and and I'm going up, I'm in

that audition at sir there in
Hollywood, and I'm up against

some, some guys I knew that were
like, like, Oh man, that I know

him, and I'm like, Mohawk
earrings. I just got back from

Europe with my I was in a death
metal band at. This time, and I

just got home, and I'm like, I'm
not, I'm not the right fit for

this. I'm like, I'm a total punk
rock, like hardcore guy. I

looked, I looked the part back
then, and uh, lo and behold,

that's what they wanted. They
didn't want a clean cut pop

drummer looking dude. They they
wanted an edge. They wanted

somebody with an edge. So there
I was at 29 with my edge. Get

the gig and and I'll tell you
what that was. The only time

maybe you maybe did this too. I
maybe with Haldane, but like, I

called and woke my mom. I was at
a I was at a party for my, ex

girlfriend's birthday party. We
were having a dinner, and I got

the call that I got the gig at
like 11 o'clock at night in

Cali, which is one o'clock in
the morning in St Louis. And I

called my mom and woke her up
and told her I got the gig that

for me driving my Bronco with
the U haul trailer, 1800 miles

from Pacific

to Holly, the Pacific Ocean.
Yeah,

that, I mean, that validated.
You know, when my first arena

over in I think it was like in
Holland, Estonia, and we played

in a we played in an arena, and
I hit and, like, the in, the

Pyros going off, and I'm like,
I'm dude. I'm like, That's it.

I'm like, this the Bronco, the U
haul trailer, the studio

apartment full of roaches on
Hollywood Boulevard. I mean,

let's, like, just everything was
just validated. And I think that

that's so that, and paying off
my my student loans to MI

through playing the drums. I
mean, these are just things that

are just cannot put $1 sign on
the validation that you get, the

feeling you get from like I had,
I set a goal, I had a dream, and

it's not only been met, it's
been exceeded. And you know, and

it's just you exceeded

your own expectations by 100 by
being forward thinking and by

being a person that takes action
and

it that's a great thing, man,
you did it.

I did it, and I felt like when I
left la after 21 years, I felt

like I had I think it's
important. It's not the most

important thing, but I think
it's important to the to feel

like I set out what I intended
to accomplish, and and I, and I

didn't feel like I left
anything. I scratched all the

itches that I intended to when I
when I left, I had just kind of

gotten to a point to where I
needed a change. I mean, you and

me, when we met, that was the
heyday of, like, the ultimate

jam nights. And like the sound

sound check live with Ferlazzo
at the Lucky Strike. We we lived

at the Lucky Strike. And the
funny thing is, is that God

bless and it was very Hollywood
in the sense that they call it a

jam night, but it is so
structured and so organized for

you listeners out there, there's
there's spreadsheets and there's

emails, and there's sign ins and
there's wristbands, and it's

like, this is, I mean, this is
Hollywood. There's like, the guy

with the earpiece at the door,
and he's like, 300 pounds, and

it's all muscle, and it's like,
you ain't getting in if you're

not on the list. And you get in
there, you wait around all

night, because at 1026 I'm
supposed to play a sound garden

song that goes between 445464,
and seven, four and and, and I'm

gonna, I'm gonna wait to do it,
because maybe some guy with a

cigar will go, Hey, kid, you
sound great. Come on. I got a

studio down. Yeah, we just do
these things. But it is not a

jam. A jam in middle America is
like, Hey, do you know? Do you

know tush or do you know what I
mean? Do you know taking care of

business. Do you know All right?
Now this is like, Okay, members

of Alice Cooper's band, members
of rat, members of y and t,

members of Jason Aldean, members
of the Dead Kennedys, and

there's everything. Was like a
super group. And it was fun,

man.

It was a blast. It's, it was, it
was such an awesome time to be

there and be a part of that. I
remember our good friend Matt

Starr. He one night I was
trying, you talk about, like, I

started my Barry a minute ago.
You talk about, like, hard to

break in. It was hard to even be
considered to be invited to play

that, to play a jam, to play a
jam, to your point, was a, I

don't mean to call it an unpaid
gig, but you you learn the

material like you were gonna go

play, like it was gonna be a TV
show, like it was gonna be

filmed, and that's how you have
to live your life in Hollywood,

because some. Buddy, a
tastemaker or 20 is going to be

in that audience? Yeah,

and I was, I was one of the
lucky few. I was one of the

lucky few that actually got a
gig from going to those I was, I

was in a band called Heaven and
Earth, with the amazing Joe

Retta on vocals and and the
incredible Lynn Sorensen from

Bad Company, and my good friend
Mike Mangan, who's now playing

with the cult, wow. So yeah,
it's

and of course, Stewart. I love
Stewart. I gotta mention

Stewart.

Stewart. Stewart Smith, Stewart
Smith, the founder of the

feast, dude, dude, dude, because
you know what like look at, like

so superlazzo and and Glenn
Sobel had the sound check thing,

which was at the home base that
the Lucky Strike. Then he had

Eric Hamill holding it down at
the Viper. And then you had Matt

holding it down at the the the
whiskey, yeah. And then there

was, like, there was several
nights a week, and, and, you

know, you never you know you
might be playing kiss. You might

be playing, you know, I'm
playing a cranberry song with

the bass player from quiet riot,
Chuck Wright, right? Chuck

Wright, and you just never know.
And it was just always so fun.

It's like, a lot of, hurry up
and wait. But we did it, you

know, we did it. It was, it was,
it was a subculture. It was like

something that you do in the
current state of things. And

thank God, because, you know,
you were talking about all those

cover bands you were in. It's
like cover bands, man, you

probably had to. You were
working in probably Orange

County all the time,

right? It was either Orange
County or the valley, yeah,

because the, as we both know,
there is no, there's no cover

bands in Hollywood. I mean, like
I lived at the beach, which we

can talk about, that

I lived at the beach. I know
what you're gonna say about the

beach. It is. It is a 24 hour,
eight days a week

party. Oh yeah, dude, it's non
stop.

And then where, when I crashed
with you, when I was going

through my couch, crashing, yes,
or crashing phase in Los

Angeles. Um, what was that
little area you stated, over by

the airport.

I lived in a city called El
Segundo.

El Segundo. Who

could forget? Man, yeah, you

I remember, and you were, you
were in town, and I'm like,

dude, I'll just leave a key
under the mat.

I'm like, what you're saying?
You were like, it

was such a safe is, I think it
still is. It's such a, such a

safe neighborhood. It's a great
place to live. It was, but you,

yeah, you were keeping like,
you're like, Dude, I I literally

get up at 6am and I'll be home
at three in the morning. And I'm

like, that's fine, man. Just
like, I only,

I need, I need a place to lay my
head for three hours without

actually suffering the sleeping
in the rental car for three

Yeah, no, I don't think, I don't
think I even saw you the whole

race, dude, best, best guest
ever. I never even saw you

because I would either be asleep
when you would get in and then

you would be gone before I would
get up. But yeah, great place to

live, great apartment. I still
miss it, but yeah, when Star

asked me to sit in, I remember
just going home and, like, I

woke my ex up, and I'm like, I
have to play the gym, you know?

It was like, such a, you know.
And from that, it just then I

just got the call, you know. And
I just kept getting the call,

Hey, are you available? Do you
want to play this, you know,

this Ozzy song, or this, you
know, this Van Halen song,

which, but, yeah, the the the
cover band stuff, that's what

that I mean, that's what we were
doing. Like, I say an unpaid

gig, but it's like, you, you
rehearse the material like you

were gonna be on TV. You had to
be on time. You had and then you

couldn't mess up. You're playing
with guys like you said. You

could be on stage with, who
knows. Like, who who knows?

That's where I met Mark McKay,
and for lazos jam, I met so many

good friends, and it was just it
was so cool that, like, I know

people that were there already
know this, but those who don't

like any night of the week, like
Monday night you were at the

Viper Room, you know, Tuesday
night you're at the whiskey.

Wednesday night, you're at Lucky
Strike. Thursday night, you're

at Sayers club. And it was,
like, every week for the rock

circle. La, so big that I did
start to try to go out and hit

some of, like, the R, B nights.

There's like, a hit, like, a
Hip, hip hop, gospel chops kind

of thing. And then there's,
like, there's the jam night at

the baked potato. And then. You
know, there is still some stuff

happening. I mean, it's always
going to, hopefully it's, you

know, an entertainment Mecca,
you know, like you're gonna have

Marvel movies, you're gonna it's
gonna drip down, there's gonna

be music, there's gonna be
musicians all that. But, yeah,

so mark McKay, you know, I mean,
you know, you're playing with

him and so, but, but let's
really talk about this dead

Kennedy thing, because that is a
relationship that goes way back,

and it's so funny. It's like, I
might have like, a punk attitude

or approach at times, but I
never was like a punker. Like, I

had a mohawk, I had a faux hawk.
It was purple, it was red. But

like, I was never, like, you
know, and then I realized, oh my

god, there's this guy, like Josh
freeze, like he plays on sting

records, and he's, like, a huge
session drummer, but he has this

pump. Well, let me check this
like, so there's like, like, but

the cool thing about the me kind
of like binging Dead Kennedys,

is there was some of that double
time, but it was never like,

super extreme temples,

like, just gotten, did you
gotten? Did you got? Did you

got? Did you got to

like, maybe that's the top I was
like, wow, I can manage that.

But it's got to feel different
to it's just like pure energy,

pure aggression. Because, you
know, you living in Nashville

for four years, playing with
Mark and other guys, and I don't

know if you've played on a lower
Broadway, we can talk about

that, and your thoughts on all
that. But, you know, most things

in Nashville there's like a
this, I call it the Nashville

plot. There's like a plot where
it's like, you're between like

69 BPM and 89 bpm. You're in
there, so you're playing real

chunky, even hats a very bottom
as kind of Dune or, a, a, you

know, a, a, heartbreakers kind
of do bad boom, right, right

down the middle, like jumping
tricep guitar, so it's, it's a,

it's a different like both
styles need energy, focus, time,

groove, feel absolutely it's got
to feel good to go out with a

punk crowd and like haka loogie
and slam slam a Red Bull, and

twirl your stick and break a
cymbal. And it's got to be,

it's, it's like war. It really

is. And, and I'll, I'll just say
this, I'll be the first to admit

it. And, and I was the least
likely, and still am the least

likely punk rock drummer ever. I
mean, I knew who they were, but

I did not grow up playing this
stuff. I didn't really even grow

up listening to it. I like the
Ramones. I mean, I like a lot of

it, but the fact that I wound up
where I'm at is really not like,

Oh man, you know, like I would
have I was listening to, like I

said earlier, like I was
listening to, like, a lot of

stepple Torah and splaire and
Pantera. And before that, I was,

you know, still am, was into the
crew and Van Halen and Def

Leppard. I mean, like, and then,
like, I just learned how to play

this music, and I, and I fell in
love with it. And how are

the fans? They've got to be,
because that's sweet. That isn't

that is an older punk band in
the sense that if somebody was

in their teens and they were
following the Dead Kennedys, and

all these multi decades go by,
and now they're grandparents,

yeah, but they're showing up.
And they got a couple, they got

a little touch of Hot Topic On
right? And they're, like, trying

to, they're keeping it alive,
you know,

you know, rich, I'm very, very
blessed in that, you know, I

took over the helm for, you
know, like, they're big shoes,

you know, like we don't have DH
anymore,

no excuse my ignorance. Was DH
the second drummer.

He was a guy named Ted was the
first drummer they had. But DH

was there the longest, you know.
He was there from 81 to 86 and

then he was with them from when
they won their lawsuit. No one

up until his passing in 22 I
mean, he he literally played a

show with them in Europe, and
came home, and I think he passed

away just like, maybe a few
weeks later, after they, like,

got home from the road. But
speaking specifically about the

Yeah, speaking specifically
about the fans I I've been so

lucky to be like embraced and
and thanked and it i Each night,

I say something about DH, we
pay, we pay homage to him every

night at every show. I

was gonna say, you know, like
you know, drummers usually have

the gift of gab, and we're
usually very outgoing people. So

you have been blessed with this
opportunity every night to. To,

to get a microphone and to talk
about the legacy, and you're

sitting in that seat, and you're
very humble about it. I mean,

you're very you're more than
capable to beyond capable to to

move the ship forward. But you
know, that's got to be a cool

thing, man, to talk every night.
It

is, it's cool. I'm gonna go out
on a limb and say it's, it's a

when you're talking about bands,
iconic bands, specifically in

drummers and coming in behind
someone who's so respected

that's a fairly small club, not
a lot of guys in that club,

yeah, um,

and, yeah. I mean, it's,

it's an honor, and it can't
really ever be taken for granted

or forgotten while you're why
you're there and who made that

opportunity possible for you.
And I think it's just, uh, I

appreciate the fact that the
guys, um, give me the

opportunity. It's maybe 45
seconds, but that's 45 seconds

that I get to talk about DH, and

everybody's like,

yeah, man. People absolutely
love it. You know what I mean,

even I just got home from Spain
last week, Portugal and

Lisbon, I saw I was I was on. I
was catching up. You know what's

the quickest way to catch up on
somebody's entire life? Go to

their Instagram, pretty much.
So, yeah, you know what the

funny. I toured lit. I toured
Lisbon in 1994 with the North

Texas State one o'clock lab
band. Wow, so, but I was too

young to really appreciate it,
and too nervous, because I was

like, oh my god, tomorrow we are
doing a live recording on the

history of big band music from
1920 to 1994 so if I went back,

I would totally enjoy it. So
tell me, how was it? How was it

you

should go back? Because you, I
know you've heard like there's a

lot of people moving from the
United States to Lisbon, wow. I

mean, it's got a lot of
Americans that are expats, or

they're, they're in supply over
there. The weather is

essentially Santa Monica. Oh, my
God. I mean, I got there, and

I'm like, it's, it's like, you
need a jacket at night, and it's

perfect in my language. It's
like, I'm like, oh, that, Oh,

that's why. And it's not, you
know, it's a beautiful city. I

mean, it's, it's, I was
fortunate. The tour was great,

nine shows, 20 days, lots of
time to go explore Granada and

like Majorca. We flew into
Majorca and had a few days

there, and the shows were
killer, and going places like

Porto and Portugal and I, we
talked about Lisbon, and just,

it was just Dude, it was like,
and we had a great crew, Rich. I

didn't have to, like, I had a
drummer as a tech.

And what's up doesn't always
happen. Doesn't

always happen, but Paulo was the
best. He must have taken a

picture the first night of the
first gig, because every night

I'd come in, my stuff was, like,
exactly, I didn't have to move.

Yeah, it's just, it's just like,
little things like that that are

just like, I don't know, I just
that is amazing, so, but it was

a man, it was a blast, and and I
was ready to come home three

weeks is the long run, as you
know. But it was, it was nice to

come home, but it was also like,
Geez, that was, like, that was

just, like, an incredible,
incredible tour, man. It was so

much fun.

Do you think that these guys are
ever going to record some new

music? Or they're not in that
mode in their life? I think that

you can't completely take it off
the table. They do talk about

it, which, you know, I'd be
like, let's go. Let's, let's

record some new music, you know.
Or even if they just, like, redo

files, do files, you know, just
send files, send files, read,

you know. Or even just like,
there's one song we do every

night, and I'm like, That is
such a great song. Why wasn't

that a single? And, well, it
almost was. And I'm like, Well,

put it out like,

were the Dead Kennedys getting
airplay? I mean, we're talking

like college radio, triple A
radio. They weren't on modern

rock radio,

right? The the the cool, one of
the coolest things about them is

that their success. Is not, it's
not tied or tethered to the

radio or right TV. They just,
they just, they get a touring,

relentless touring, and like
Buzz and street like they just,

they are everything they built
is from just really good songs

with clever lyrics and like,
it's, like, it's, it used to be

that easy, right? It used to be
that easy, and now it's slightly

a little bit more complicated.

It is so complicated, is like,
are we are, you know, we were

relying on traditional radio or
relying on satellite radio? Are

we doing playlists? Are we doing
relentless touring? Are we doing

American Idol or the voice? Are
we doing all everything

combined? And it's like, God,
good luck. But I will tell you,

you know, as you know, guys like
us, you know, we have our craft.

Yeah, we have a big smile on our
face, and someone's always going

to need a great drummer.

So there you go. Well, and so
far, that's, yeah, that served

us well. Man, yeah, it's, it's,
it's an interesting life choice.

It's not one that you Well, I
don't know, man, and you're

probably the same way. I just, I
just, there wasn't anything I

wanted to do. I think you have
to be that. I wouldn't say

crazy, but maybe a little you
just focus. I don't want to do

anything. I don't, I don't have
any interest in doing anything

else. But this so

there has to be a focus. Yeah,
that is not only bordering on.

That is probably Bullseye in the
middle of obsession, yeah, yes,

because I remember studying
Vinnie abassy and do videos. And

now I and then buying his book
rock steady, and, you know, and

you're in the trenches, and
you're copying and you're

modeling. And then I look back
at those do videos nowadays, and

I'm like, Wow, this was pretty
low budget, right, but, but it

stands the rainbow in the dark
and last in line and all these

amazing songs that were
recorded, it sounds shitty, but

I don't even know why they call
it sound shitty. It's because

Sound City, I mean, so many
amazing runners, Tom Petty,

Vinny Dio, so many great things
were recorded there. Did you get

to

go and record? I know Matt. I
know Matt started, we did that

thing for charity. So grow
bought that console, and it's

it's in 606 now it's crazy. And
I did this, and I got to, I got

to record into that console. We
did a record. We did we I, we

contributed a song for charity.
This is going back years, years

ago, but, and I just remember
number one being in 606 which

is, if you're a Foo Fighters
fan, you love nirvana. You love

Dave Grohl. It's pretty magical
place, just to begin with. But

like, then there's that, there's
that's, that's the Neve, you

know, that's the, that's the
need, that's the Appetite for

Destruction. Never mind rumors.
It's that console, right? I

don't know why people would ever
call it sound shitty. And I

think, I think, you know, I
think Rick Springfield did a lot

of his stuff there. I mean, it
was like that was a magical

building in the middle of the,
you know, the valley, man, the

San Fernando Valley. Say, what
you want. I mean, we wouldn't

have the movie, you know, we
wouldn't have Boogie Nights. We

wouldn't have, we wouldn't have
so many things. Thank God for

that little valley that right
made so many amazing things.

Really did yeah.

It was, yeah, it was, it was
such a incredible time. And I

loved my time there. I loved my
time in LA. I miss it. I love to

go visit now, but, but I was
gonna

ask you, how are you loving, you
know, Nashville? So you got,

like, it's not quite the
Nashville that I experienced 28

years ago. You know, coming from
Texas, like, you know, Texas is

the south, but it's kind of its
own subculture. And, you know, I

really don't have any problem
with Texas. I think, like, the

roads are super wide, the people
are pretty proud. They're pretty

friendly. It gets hot, but, you
know, there's a there's a

culture there. There's a support
for the arts, their music

education is at its highest
level in the state of Texas. I

really don't have a problem with
Texas at all. But, you know,

moving here, I was like, oh my
god, meet in threes, and there

was, like, hay bales, and
there's, you know, no valet

parking. Forget about sushi. I
mean, like we, we have come a

long way, baby. Yeah, so do you,
you know, are you loving

Nashville, or are you just
realizing that, hey, everyone is

coming here, and I'm here and
I'm in line. I mean, I'm so glad

I'm in line. I moved here 28
Years ago. So, you know,

hopefully, if somebody needs a
drummer, they or a voiceover

artist or they're going to think
of rich or Steve. Steve, it's

the Steven rich show. Brought to
you by brought you by Heinz 57

ketchup, brought

to you by icebreakers.

Yeah, I don't have it. What am
I? Got this, I I'm, it's water,

I promise, don't freak out.
Yeah, it's been, you know, like

I had the good fortune, you
know, people in our industry, we

have the good fortune of seeing
if we think a new place might be

a good fit. So I started coming
out here for work with Mark.

With mark in 2018 when we played
the Ryman. So that was my first

gig in Nashville. Was the Ryman

Auditorium. Look at that, buddy.
That's the mother church. And

it's like, Whoa,

yeah. We we were direct support
for Ted Nugent. And I remember

Mark calling me on the phone.
I'm driving in North Hollywood,

I'm driving my car. And he was
like, Hey, what are you doing?

And I'm like, because we were,
we were, it was being thought

about if we were going to be
able to do the tour or whatever,

you know, and and it was like
Virginia Beach, and it was like,

some dates in Ohio, and, yeah,
but then it was like, the Ryman,

you know, which is like, we'll
do the four to get the one, no

offense, but that's just, that's
just the way it is. And he was

like, you might want to pull
over. And I'm like, okay, so I

pull over in somebody's
driveway. And he's like, we got,

we got the tour. We're gonna,
we're gonna play the Ryman in

July, and I'm like, freaking
out, amazing. So we did that,

which was so special, so special
to be the only, the second

member of my family who, where
there's many musicians in my

family, but to be the second
member of my family to get to

play on that stage, I called my
dad from the wings, and I was,

like, talking to him, and I'm
like, so nervous. I I've played

TV, and I was more nervous there
for that show than I was for

playing TV. I mean, that was
like, so because I've been

hearing about this place my
whole life, since I was a little

kid, hearing about the Grand Ole
Opry, right? So, well,

it is the longest running radio
show of all time, and for

various periods it was a
television show when, when I was

with Pam Tillis, we lived at the
Ryman, I mean, at the other

location for the, you know, the
Opry, and we were always on

television. And it's like, you
got to get on. There's a house

kit. There's a house drummer,
you know, but was, you were

doing a full blown show, right?
You had your own kit.

So, yeah, you know, I we got a
kit for the run from SAR here in

Nashville and and I had that the
show went great. Was amazing. I

had family in attendance. My
fiance, her mom and sister came

down from Maryland for that
show. I mean, it was, it was

really, really, really special.
We had to go to Roberts

afterwards for fried bologna
sandwiches and, you know, like

we and beers. We had to do that,
right? But, you know, right

after we play the Ryman,

my favorite Honky Tonk on the
entire planet. Do you agree with

me 100%

and not only that, probably
maybe the only like, it's like

the last one, it's like the last
authentic, like, it's the

last Honky Tonk. There should be
a documentary. And like, if any

filmmakers are listening out
there, I want to be, I want to

somehow be involved in this
thing. Because I'm not a person

that finds themselves down there
a lot. But if I do go down

there, I'm going to Roberts.
That's top of the list,

without a doubt. You go to
Roberts. Layla is also, is, is

cool too. It's like second so,
so you, you get involved, and

then you get me on as the
narrator for, for the last honky

talk at all,

listen to those voice like, I'm
like, I'm like, hey lady. And

you're like,

you always sounded like, you
don't sound like Jerry Lewis,

Hey lady, don't

Hello, Roberts, it's a fucking
party.

It's a party, right? So, here's
here. Here I am. I've been

talking about moving here was
since like, 2016 right, before I

got the Heaven and Earth gig,
which was phenomenal. It was a

great gig. I mean, it was
salaried. I mean, I mean, I'm

not going to argue with that.
Very generous people there

involved. It pushed my move out,
because I got a gig. I got a gig

in LA and it was fun. And I'm
playing, like, Deep Purple, like

Kenny Aronoff played on the
record. And I'm like, I'm coming

in, and I'm copping Kenny stuff,
nice and, and then, yeah, it was

a blast. And I'm. At him a few
months later, and he couldn't

have been nicer to me.

He's a real wallflower.

He should really, he should
really open up. I gotta. Did I

told you my Kenny Aronoff story,
didn't I? You're about to right

now. I'm about to right now. We
were at a good friend of mine,

Ronnie. She's a awesome guitar
player. Played with the

runaways. She booked a session.
She used to play with Kenny when

she was when Kenny was out with
Fogarty, or doing a trillion

other things. You know, I get
the call and and so we're in,

we're in Sunset Sound there in
LA and we're doing, and she got,

and she's, she's got like, three
or four songs she wants to

record, and she's got any on one
or two, and me on one or two. So

as I'm doing a sesh with Kenny,
he comes in, he plays on my kit,

which was cool, sitting right
over there, and and I'm talking

to the we're done, you know, and
we're talking it was, it was

like a masterclass watching him
do is, like, listen and the

yellow legal pad and make his
chart. I'm watching him and,

like, I'll watch him go on. He
does, like, two takes, and it's

done, just sick and, and we're
done, we're out, we're out in

the live room and word, and I'm
talking to someone, I'm talking

to, talking to Ronnie or
somebody, and he was like, You

should do voiceover and I'm
like, thanks. I'm trying to, I'm

like, I dip my toe in the water.
So I my story is when I, when I

say, Kenny Aronoff heard me
play. He told me I should do

voiceovers.

It's not that's horrible, that's
terrible. And funny and

incredible.

Dan and Jerry AT Pro drum, they
laughed. They thought it was

pretty

funny. Have you ever done the
groove of the day on the Vine

Street? There?

I did, man, I got to do it. I
got to do it last year,

actually. No, I got to do it in
23 Yeah. What

am I? What am I saying? I
watched it on your Instagram.

It's like, you did, you did a
thing. Like the groove was like,

there's like,

du gust, goes to do Gaston
cutting. Yeah, it was the

that was it you, you got the
gig? No, it was, it was no

pressure, dude. I remember going
in to see those guys and and I

had just landed from probably
Nashville, and I hadn't slept, I

think I did a gig the night
before. Was really, really,

really, really tired. But when
Jerry's like, so you want to,

are you familiar with the day?
And I'm like, Yeah, I'm

familiar. He's like, you want to
do one? And I'm like, even

though I've got plane sleep, you
know, like three and a half

hours, I'm like, I'm not gonna
say no. So on those acrylic dw

is that was the best I could put
together on, like, three and a

half hours. You could probably
see the bags under my eyes, but

no, they're, they're sweet guys.
And that was a that was a lot of

fun. You know, it's just such

a piece of history, Hollywood
history, and that drum shop

across from the, you know, the
local 47 musicians union. And

then if you walk out the door
and you take a right, you go to

cactus taqueria number something
or other that I love the best.

That's why I go right there. And
there's no bathrooms, and so you

got to go into the neighborhood
next door and pee behind the

building. It's like crazy.

Oh yeah. Did you know pro drums
got a toilet? I didn't know that

until, like, they have a they
have a restroom in pro drum. I

was, I had been shopping there
for 15 years,

and you didn't know

I, like, drove up from, like, El
Segundo. I

knew because they have, like,
like, a very they have these

very yellowed, weathered from
the sun posters of like Steve

Jordan and Dave weckle over the
toilet. It's amazing by the

Yamaha, by the Yamaha hip gig.
Get

right, right the weckel with the
mullet, yeah, oh,

dude, I had that mullet. I had
this vo five mullet, bro,

dude, I had, I had one. I had, I
had, I like to think, like guys

like us, we had mullets before.
They were ironic, like when they

were just, like, it was just a
hairstyle, you know, like, it

was like,

it was just, it was just vo five
hairspray curls,

yeah, little herbal essence.

And then we would come home from
the club, and there was no smoke

heaters in a lot of places, and
so you would open up your drum

cases, and it would smell like
the Philip Morris factory, and

your hair would like, and there
was like, you would you take a

shower, and then you could see
the smoke coming out of your

hair.

Literally, literally, like,
like, people asking you if you

smoked. You're like, No, I'm a
nightclub musician, and your

teeth are all yellow, and you're
like. You got yellow teeth, your

clothes. Think it's crazy.

You're in Nashville. You got a
great gal. You're engaged, yeah,

you're loving Nashville. So, so
I'm sorry, just this is like,

no, no, yeah. How did you finish
your Ryman experience? You're

the second person in the history
of your family, to play the

Ryman Auditorium.

So that was incredible. And like
I was saying, you know, like in

our industry, I would always
just in 18, I wanted to move

here. I wanted to move here. In
16, got a gig, pushed it out 18,

play the Ryman. I'd get a car,
I'd get a hotel, I'd spend a few

extra days I'd always tried. And
then with janava, I was coming

out here in 2018 and 2019 to do
the Americana fest with her so

and then Christine, my fiance,
her her work, her company, had a

massive conference at the
gaylord in 2019 so between

playing the Ryman, doing
Americana TWICE, TWICE, TWICE,

and coming out with Christine
for the conference at the

Gaylord, like I had, like,
chances to come out and, like,

check Nashville out. I mean, I
had been I came down here with

my dad when my uncle lived here,
but I was very young, and I

didn't really, you know, like,
now, you know, as an adult, but

I but coming from Missouri, I
mean, it's not that it's

different, because we're not,
you know, we're not in the south

where I, you know, where I'm
from. But like, and certainly

coming from LA, it was very,
very, very different. But like,

you know, I'm like, I could, I
could totally, totally fit in

here. I could totally do this. I
could, I think I could make this

work. And, um, so, so, yeah, so
I, I came out here. I actually

moved here originally in
December of 2019 and was just in

time for the tornado and the
pandemic to basically shut

everything down. So when, when
the town so in March, when

everything shut down. I mean, I
had built up a little bit of a

network, but there was, there
was, as we both know, there was

no music, there was no there was
no gigs, there was no Broadway,

there wasn't nothing. So I, I
decided I packed up, and I

couldn't afford to stay here, so
I went home and I helped out my

mom, who was having some health
problems, and I'd always wanted

to teach, so I started applying
to like School of Rock and

places that were doing virtual
drum lessons.

Wait a minute, did you did you
work with Angie and Kelly

mccrite over at the School of
Rock?

I worked at the School of Rock
in Kirkwood, Missouri, just St

Louis. Oh, you went back home. I
went home to help out. My mom

gotcha was having some health
problems, and it was kind of

like one of those things,
complete transparency. Like, as

much of a drag as it was that we
were all, we were all out of

work. I mean, we were all
sitting at home. I mean, there

was about not a whole lot going
on, but in hindsight, you know,

that was I kind of was exactly
where I needed to be. I like, I

was right there. Like, you know,
my mom had a minor stroke, so it

was good. It was good to be
there and help with doctor's

appointments and grocery
shopping and pharmacy runs and

things like that. But it also
provided me an opportunity,

because there was I, I'd always
wanted to teach, but I've always

been on the road, you know, so
I've never really taken the time

to, like, have students, you
know? It's just, I just it the

it just the opportunity never
presented itself. So I thought,

let's make some lemonade, right?
I was like, here's an

opportunity. So I got on with
School of Rock there in

Kirkwood, Missouri, and then I
also was working for monzingo

music,

and, oh, Jeff, Jeff,

Jeff, sweetheart, killer

drummer, and he does, like, kind
of like uplifting presentations

and such, and I've done things
for him. What a great guy.

Yeah. So that's I was at
monzingo, and I was working at

School of Rock, and that's kind
of what I did rich, until I was

kind of getting calls that
things, this is like the summer

of 2021, that things were
starting to kind of open, open

back up down here, and Mark
McKay and I, we, we were direct

support for reocc. Bead wagon
the summer of 21 we did a we did

two and a half weeks with them
in July of 21 and I said, when

we get off the road opening up
for reo, I went home and I

bought a car, and I packed it
up, and I came back here, and

that was in September, so July,
and then I staggered. And then I

finally, really, I like, got
here in September 21 and I no

more back and forth. I like, I,
I stayed put, and I've been here

ever since, man and I, I love
it, man and, you know, yeah, got

engaged. We own a home here in
town, which is a big deal. Makes

you feel,

you know what? That's like,
you're part of the culture,

yeah,

yeah, if you own, if you own,
property, where you where you

live, you know, that's kind of
like, it's very like, you feel,

definitely more of the fabric of
of your community. So, and I

absolutely, you know, love it.
It's just, I do my airport gigs,

you know, I do my Johnny Cash
tribute act, and I play with

Dead Kennedys, and I I play
really traditional country, or I

play very extreme punk rock, and
then I'm also available to do

sessions or, or what else,
whatever else comes down the

pipe.

Now, Steve, do you? You know,
I'm glad you're here full time

and welcome. Do you have your
mobile tracking thing over to

the your left right there? Like
set up for drums to record or

No, I'm not currently set up
right now to record at home. I

do vo from home, but, but I
definitely the room is like,

we've been here a year in this
house, and it's definitely taken

me with work and back and forth
and in and out of town. It's

taken me that long just to even
get my voiceover booth kind of

treated and up and going. But
remote tracks is definitely

something that I'm interested
in. I'm already, you know, doing

single track for my voice, but,
but definitely, I love playing

live. I love the road. I love,
you know, I traveling airports

and you know that stuff. You
know that it doesn't, it's not

for everybody it but even in
being in my late 40s, that kind

of stuff, it does not it doesn't
bother me. I actually kind of

miss it when I'm home for too
long. So

I do not have a problem with it
at all.

Excited to go to Australia
coming up in September with dead

Kennedy. First time for that
never been New Zealand,

Australia. Just don't

go swimming with the crocodiles.
But in watch out for the snake,

spiders, scorpions and sharks.

Yeah, I was going to say, what
did they say? Shake your shake

your boots before you put them
on. Yeah. We were there in

20. Definitely do that. We were
there in 2015 like we after a

show with, like, the whole band
and crew at this, you know,

outdoor eatery and such. And,
you know, it's in the summer, so

it's like the sunset so late and
but we see this palm tree just

like shaking, like it was, like
10 feet away. And we're like,

what is that? He goes, Oh, don't
walk by my it's just a city

back. This thing was a monstrous
veins in the, you know, like a

bat. It was like a bat, you know
it's like, but he's, like, just

a city bat, night. No, it's just
like a rat for them. You know

what? I mean, like, but this
thing had like a four foot

wingspan. It was up in the tree,
and it was all veiny, and you're

like, that's a bat. It looks
like a pterodactyl.

I was gonna say, Dude, this like
something left over from like

the dinosaur age, right?

Yeah, it's down there, bro, it
is down there.

Well, I have that to look
forward to. I have large bat

birds to look forward to. Yeah,
I've never been and i i gotta

say that I've put off going
because I've always hoped and

prayed like Japan came work came
through. I got to go to Japan

for work, and I got to see all
of Europe through work and South

America and all these places.
And I'm like, it's gonna happen.

It's gonna happen. I'm like, I'm
work is somehow some there's too

much music. They love music, too
much over there for me not to

get to go to Australia with a
band, certain places, I've

surrendered to the fact that
her, Christine and I are just

going to have to go on our own
dime. But I'm like, not that's

going to be, that's going to be
a work trip. I can feel it. And

sure enough, that's

one of the perks of doing what
we do, is being able to travel

the world on someone else's
time. And we're actually, we're

actually going back to Australia
for 25 days in February. So, oh,

wow, exciting, buddy. Super
excited. So maybe I'll do some

international tours,
international clinics, because

I've never done a whole lot of
international clinics, you know,

because we'll have days off in
between, which is kind of some.

Kind of interesting to look
forward to. But, man, if

everybody wants to check you
out. Steven Wilson, musik.com,

it tells the whole story.

That's it. That's my site. I'm
very proud of it. My good friend

kata did a great job building
that up for me. So we worked a

lot, lot of back and forth on
Well, it's nice. It

tells people how to find you.
The bio is brief and sexy and

sweet, and there's video footage
of you playing, there's

recordings, there's your tour
dates, which are up to date,

which I'm sure, give it five
years it will not be up to date,

but in the meantime, your tour
dates are up to date. You know,

I interviewed Chris McCue, and
he's like, I said, Man, your

tour dates are 10 years old. On
the thing. He's like, Yeah,

yeah, no, no one ever keeps the
tour dates. Just go to

Instagram. But no, it looks
great. And then, how do you

promote your VO, is that another
site? Do you have an agent?

Voices, 123, what do you do?

It's Steve Wilson. Vo.com is my

I should have checked that out.
Yeah, everyone, check that out.

Steve, Wilson, vo.com and I need
to connect you with Jim

McCarthy, who's my longtime
friend of 18. Yeah, the coast of

my podcast. And he does some
steak work, but he calls a lot

of his work hamburger work,
which is he does a lot of things

like press one to try to talk to
someone. Tried press two to

never, ever speak to someone,
ever again in your entire life,

and press zero to fuck off. So
he does a lot of those kind of

things. You know? Yeah,

yeah. I would love to meet him.
I would love to meet there's a

great organization here in
Nashville, the Tennessee

voiceover. With Christy Bowen
over there. They're, they're

great people to know,

yeah, I'll give them a plug. And
they're,

they're, they're terrific,
great. Lot of classes, a

coaching, they will help you
with an audition, you know, like

I've went in there.

I've been with pearl drums for
18 years, and I

was out Pearl Sabian, you and I
have in common. So if we ever

did a clinic tour, the common
bomb would be Sabian. You're

with the Vader. They have a
stick called the it's called the

Los Angeles or it's called the
LA. It's a lesson.

It's the, it's

the LA session, I think

is that la session, I like,

I play

a power 5b acorn tip. Then Chad,
my good friend, Chad, over at

Vader, who takes such good care
of me. He screened my name and

my handle. I got the Boomstick
now so he

I was, like, so stoked for that.
And Steve Boomstick

Wilson, I love that.

Yeah, dude. Like, it's, they
make a good product. They really

make a good product. Everybody's
making a really good product.

And, you know, Sabian, like, I'm
assuming, like, so for me, like,

I got 15 or 16 inch hats. I
never have less than a 22 inch

rod. I got 220 inch crashes. And
then I have a holy China. And

holy China is that the best
China symbol ever known to

man. I mean, they're, they're
monstrous man. They're so nasty.

I love, I love Chris. It's such
good. I just got the the 15 inch

evolution hats that weckel hats,
and I absolutely love them. And

stanky hit me to Superman's 20
this session, ride, man, that

the HH session, right? It's a
dude. It's so versatile, great

stuff. Love all the HHS stuff,
but, but yeah, yeah, that's

they're great companies, man.
And you know what? What more can

you ask of a company than you
call they call you back. You

need something, they take care
of it, you know, I mean, and in

return, we just, we talk it up
and promote it anywhere we can,

in any way we can. So, yeah,
they're very, very lucky. I

don't if it's not broke, you
know, I've been with Pearl 18

years. I've been with Sabian 17
years, invader for like, seven,

eight years, and, yeah, it's
just like, it's, it's, they're

great products,

and you're a loyal human being,
and that's a great thing. What

is your go to snare drum with
pearl? Is it that? Is it that

sense of tone? It's like a
budget snare drum, but it's

badass, and everybody records on
it, or like

that. That thing I just got the
session select, which is a birch

and mahogany, African mahogany
blend. It's not the most

expensive snare drum in the
world, but by God, it's a six

and a half and it cracks. It was
on a backline kit, and I. Was

like, geez. And I called John
up, and I'm like, How do I get

my hands on one of these? I'm
like, I gotta have one of these.

Full disclosure,

my super phonic gets a big
workout. I love my phonic, and

I've got a carbon fiber snare
drum that was made for me from a

boutique company called Rocket
shell in Sacramento. What's up,

Paul? And I absolutely love that
thing too. So I'm a, I'm loyal,

but you know, like, you know,
like, you're a DW guy that bell,

that bill bronze is a six, six
snare drum. What do you what are

you using? What's your Monday
through Friday on tour the the

snare drum is just a matching
five and a half by 14 maple

snare drum that matches the
maple 1970s DW technology, like,

I just they have so many
different shell configurations

and cross pollinations And the,
you know, gum and cherry wood

and, like, you know, Maple
mahogany. I do have a maple

mahogany kit, that's my main
recording kit. But on the road,

it's just like, I just keep it
so stupid. I just go with this

normal off the shelf maple kit,
you know, 1316, 1824, five and a

half cookies. Let's count it
off. You know,

I love it, dude. Keep it simple,
yeah. I was gonna say, so

you're, yeah, you're using wood
on live. That's great,

man. I mean, yeah, even though
I'm a very much a metal snare

drum guy, I have, you know, 90%
of my collection is metal snare

drums. And then some of the
deeper drums are treated in a

way with double ply heads and
gaff tape and such to mimic a

wood snare drum. You know, I
just love metal drums, you know,

yeah,

me too. I do too. I love a metal
snare drum. I really do. I

really do. Yeah, I'm trying to
find a black beauty from like,

you know, at least, maybe even
like the 90s, for under $2,000

you know. And it's been, it's,
it's, it's tricky.

You know what I found there's,

there's a, there's a cat in town
who's like, he's kind of like

one of our keltners, our
Nashville keltoners, Brian,

Owings, what's up, Brian? He's,
we keep missing each other, but

you know, he's like, you know
one of the guys that will play

with, like a loose end or
Roseanne cash? He's that cat,

and he's, probably has 25 100
year old black beauties. He's

that guy. And he's like, I was
like. I was like, I want a 1920

Black Beauty. Where do I get it?
He goes, just go to reverb. He

sent me a link. He goes, here's
a 1920s Black Beauty, six and a

half for $1,300 he said, buy it
right now, right now. Yeah, and

I, and I did so I have 119 20s
Black Beauty just, you know,

just because we've been doing
this so long, does it end up on

everything? No, because
sometimes the off the shelf, six

and a half from forks, drum
closet, that's got the trick

throw off, and the, you know,
the, yeah, the rock locks, and

it's just all ready to go. And
it's just like, it beat the shit

out of it, you know? But dude,
that's,

you deserve it, man, that's a
great fine.

Yeah, I keep looking, you know,
I keep looking. I'm we have the

good fortune like of being on
the road. I got a 1970 super

phonic five. They clearly didn't
know what they had. I well, I

got it for, I think I paid $200

for it. Well, that's always
great

at a mon past shop in New
Jersey. And the only question I

had for the guy is, can you ship
it to my house in Nashville? And

he was, yeah, he's like, no
problem.

So that's a fun pastime on the
road. You know, you're in, yeah,

you're in Hoboken, New Jersey.
You're gonna, you're gonna get a

nice cup of coffee. You're going
to get a bagel scooped or

unscooped, and you're going to
go and you're going to go to the

thrift shop and look for drums
or something. You

know, totally, I remember I
texted Joe travers, what's up,

Joe? Joe, what's up? Joe's Joe

walks in odd time. He's like,
left, right, left, right, left,

left, right, left, right, left,
right, right, left. He's in

seven. He's walking seven.

Real quick, real quick. You know
he was, he was good, he got, he

was gonna go out with Eric
Johnson. And I'm like, Dude, you

just must be like, You must be
just like, this is years ago. I

was like, You must just be like,
in the shed, man. Just like,

he's like, no.

He's like, I just listened to
it. I'm like,

What's up? Joe travers, we got,
we got to have a nice chat,

too, Joe, I called you, and I
was like, Is this a good deal?

And you were like, like, that.
Buy it now. Now don't wait. You.

Uh, get that go to an ATM, if
you have to, like, get that drum

and and that and

ATM,

Hey, so, so, um, here's the
deal. What's your, what's your,

what's your favorite color, uh,

McIntosh green, like granny
apple green.

Never have gotten that that's by
that's because you're a unique

individual. Yeah, I like that.
What about your favorite food or

dish?

Well, favorite food

is Italian, and if, if it was on
a deserted island last meal, uh,

kind of boring, but I'd probably
have to go spaghetti and

meatballs, yeah,

but it's just so great. And then
you have a some Chianti, and

then you're on a tablecloth, the
red and white checkered

tablecloth, yeah, and some guy's
got an accordion, and you're

just like, I'm ready.

Let's go Amore. Here we go.

Ooh, nice press. Oh, my God,

you press. So what about, what
about favorite drink?

My favorite drink,

adult or all, all

genre may give me milk, you
know, 2% whatever.

Well, my favorite beverage is
probably coffee. Yeah, come on.

I mean, I mean talking about
something that I can have any

time of the day, like I can, I
can drink coffee at 10 o'clock

at night and enjoy it. So, yeah,

I will usually not do it at 10
o'clock at night, but you're

right. I mean, I could push it
to like, six o'clock at night,

something like that. And I don't
know about you and your touring

mates, but we're like, simple
guys. We're just like, what's

our rider on the bus? The
strongest coffee known to man,

like alien blood, like seeping
through the whole of the ship.

You know what? I mean, we just
give

us coffee, like a like an engine
block, like the oil pan out of

it. Yeah?

Dude, incredible. He's so easy.
So what about your favorite

drummers? Like, you know, if you
had, like, your Mount Rushmore

of drummers, um,

I would have to put bottom up
there. And I really love Steve

Smith. Wow,

the open bass drums and the
solos from the 80s, so fluid and

awesome. But to hear him, I
mean, the guy not to we can go

down a rabbit hole about him,
but like to hear him is jazz,

and then, like, the stuff he did
with journey, I mean, I just, I

am like, that's like, it's the
same guy, and it's just to me.

It's just like,

oh my god, it's, I love that
vital information, especially

the like 90s vital information,
with the fact sonar snare drum

was kind of small, it was a
little bit smooth, you know,

yeah, um, those two, I mean, you
gotta mention Vinny, you know. I

mean, with the sting stuff
alone, you know? I mean,

yeah, and then, you know,

I love Dave Grohl. I love the
way I love the veracity of

Dave's playing and and I,
growing up, I was a big fan of

both Mike Portnoy. I loved the
the early Dream Theater stuff,

and I loved nirvana. I loved the
idea of taking veracity and a

vocabulary and and merging them
so like, and it's basically kind

of like what would become.
That's what be, in my opinion.

It's kind of like what Joey
Jorgensen did with Slipknot in

those early days, was he took
prowess sheer, like the chops,

but he beat the crap out of the
drums too. So it was like, yeah,

that that gets my tail wagging.
I like to hear, like, power and

like, you know, Kishi, like,
tissue can do that. Tissue can,

like, be coming through a wall
and then, like, just burn around

the times. You're like, geez.
Like, like, all that stuff he

did with, like, pride and glory
that record, I mean, like, he's

all over it. It's just that's,

that's what's fun

to me, yeah, man, I think that's
a perfect combination of peanut

butter and chocolate. Is, is
that you. You are. It's a com

it's like a smart cave.

That's the best way I've ever
heard it put it's like a

caveman that went to community
college. And it's like, hey, you

know, read Little Women, read
Catcher in the Rye, read The

Canterbury Tales, but you're
still very hairy and your

knuckles are scraping the ground
100% Yeah, yeah. I love that. We

both feel that way. And I do,
you know, I will say this. He

hasn't been on the show yet, but
God bless him. He's asked me to

be at four bottom Bonzo bashes,
and you've played those. I think

Brian Tisch is one of the
greatest modern rock drummers we

have alive today. 100% I had
agree he has a real special

thing. Yeah, he does. He really
does. And you know what? Who

else does? Steve Wilson, Oh,
you're too kind. Thank you,

buddy. I love it, buddy. I miss
you so much. I know that we love

cigars. I love the fact that
you're living in Nashville right

now. I love that you got, you
know, since you and I met, we

both got great gals. We got
homes. You know, it's, it's,

it's all a great thing. And if
people want to come see you this

year with the Dead Kennedys, how
do they find out where to find

you?

They can go to my website, they
go to Steven Wilson music.com or

they can cruise over to dead
kennedys.com we are currently

nothing in the States right now
on the books, but we are headed,

like I said. We're headed to New
Zealand and Australia in

September, and in the meantime,
I'm going to be here in town,

and I gig around local here and
there when I can, and and then,

if not, I'm in this booth and
talking into a microphone. So

it's good stuff.

I love it. Kenny your office,
right? You're like, Hey, you

should do voiceover. And you're
doing the thing, man. You know,

everyone takes Kenny's advice,

and if Kenny gives you some
advice, you should probably take

it.

That's dude. I love it. I tell
you what, I probably won't see

in the month of July, because
it's always everyone's craziest

month festival season. But I
know that there's an amazing

cigar bar here in Spring Hill
called the mission. You walk in,

they've got the most insanely
expensive smoke eaters. You

leave and you're like, oh my
god, did I? Did I go to cigar

bar? It was amazing. Was amazing
experience. So we'll do the

thing. So everybody check out.
Steven Wilson music.com and the

voiceover is Steve Wilson
vo.com,

Steve Wilson vo.com,

I'm super happy for you. I'm
just very proud of you, and I'm

proud to call your friend. Thank
you Rich. I love you buddy. I

love you, man. And hey to all
the listeners, be sure to

subscribe, share, rate and
review. It helps people find

this crazy little show, and we
need all the help of all the

noise today and leave us a five
star rating and review on Apple

podcast. It really does help
things, and we'll see you next

time,

thanks, Steve, this has been the
rich Redmond show. Subscribe,

rate and follow along at rich
redmond.com forward, slash

podcasts. You.