The Rich Redmond Show

Unknown: People used to find out
that I knew lucky as a kid, and

kind of grew up with Lucky, a
really young drummer, learning

from this guy named Joseph lucky
Scott, and I would have bass

players find me on the internet
and call me, what was it like,

and what was it like to play
with lucky, and ask me, what was

he using to get that sound for
such and so, oh my god. And I'm

like, Dude, I do not know. First
off, I wouldn't have known

because I was a little kid, but
I used to actually see when

Lucky was out in public playing
bass. There would be times when

he would get into certain
sections and songs and he would

turn away so people couldn't see
from the audience, because he

didn't want other bass players
to see what he

was doing. This is the rich
Redmond show.

Songs are like relationships. A
song's like a woman. If you're

in a really good relationship
with a woman, you can't tell her

what you want her to be. You
can't force her to be what you

want her to be. You can respond
to her. You can try to interpret

what she says back to her. I
think I hear you saying this,

yada yada, yada yada. You can
try to kind of match her, her

timbre, her her, her mood, or
whatever. But the best thing

that you can do, honestly is
listen, and don't ever try to

force yourself on a song. The
song will tell you what it wants

to be nice. And I've taken that
with me, not just with music,

with everything.

So just open yourself up to the
universe, and the universe will

tell you,

it'll lead you just, just be
honest.

It's how the Marketplace is. But
I got a question for you, and

it's, and it's a very heavy
question, okay, oh, if peanut

butter wasn't called peanut
butter, what would it be called?

It'd

be nut butter, nut butter, pea
butter.

You can make butter out of
peanuts.

Yeah, it's amazing. You know,
how they actually do that. Do

you ever try ever make your own
peanut butter? Oh, it's

exhausting. No, it's not. You do
it at Trader Joe's. You pour the

things and you get to, you know,
just

get a food processor and some
peanuts. It's all you need,

yeah, and it's super fresh. It's
fresh and amazing. Wow. Put it

on some bread, and now we're
into the podcast. See,

this is what happens, very much
trying to trick us into you

know, it's all the latest and
greatest stuff in in podcasting.

Yeah, now, but here we are. Here
we are having a great

conversation with our friend
Gerald wear. Now, let me tell

you about Gerald. We met in 2012
This is 13 years ago, at a place

called the Rutledge that place,
of course, progress in

Nashville. I think it's a
Mexican restaurant, it's a

hotel, it's something. But
anyways, it was a great night. I

think I was playing with rich.
Eckhart. Rich was the guitar

player for Toby Keith for a
long, long long time, but he put

out this kind of like solo
fusion project. And then after

the show, I meet this very nice
young man who is also a

musician, a consultant, a social
scientist, a researcher, a life

and career coach, a speaker and
a proud US Navy submarine

veteran, yes, hailing from
Chattanooga, Tennessee. This is

our friend, Gerald Weir. Thanks
for coming on

the show, man, thanks for having
me, dude, it's an honor. I

almost feel somewhat unqualified
to sit here. No,

you. Well, the thing is, as I
said,

a lot more I'm far less
qualified than anybody that sat

here.

Well, the thing, the common
thing, is that we all have a

love of music, drumming, rhythm.
Also, you know you love we talk

over the years about success and
motivation and why we do things,

what inspires people, and you're
probably will be the only

drummer we ever have on this
show that has a PhD. So I

thought it would make for an
interesting conversation,

because you're a very evolved
human that has got a lot of

depth and interests. You know
what I mean? Because so drummers

are, you know, the drummer joke,
you know? How do you know when

the stage is level? We all know
that one get ready with the

splash symbol, Jim, the stage is
even that is when the drummer

drools out of both sides of his
mouth. Yes,

okay, okay, yeah, never heard
that. But okay.

But I mean, originally from your
Detroit. You're from Detroit,

but you kind of grew up in
Chattanooga. You still live in

Chattanooga, keep a place in
Nashville. So smart, and I met

you as a drummer, and then as
the onion got peeled, I realized

that you did all these other
things. And over the years,

you'd reach out to me. You're
like, Hey, would you answer this

questionnaire for my paper? And
I'd be like, This is great.

Somebody cares about what I
think about for an academic

paper.

Well, but you're always gracious
enough to answer the phone. And

honestly, you know, sometimes
you can tell what you're getting

when you first meet somebody.
Yeah, honestly, full disclosure,

that night when we met at the
Rutledge that was literally the

first night I was in Nashville.
That

is cool. That was a great kind
of watering hole, you know,

networking opportunity for a
first night in town. Because

some people could just find
themselves at, oh, I'm at

tootsies. I heard about it. I
get it, yeah, you know. But I

mean, that was a, that was a
cool room,

yeah, Sean O'Brien, who actually
played bass with you guys that

night, yeah, I knew him from
high school, but that was

actually the first night I was
actually out in. Nashville, but,

but my point in saying is, is,
when you meet somebody, you can

tell sometimes if there's more
to them than just what you see.

Yeah, and you know, not, not
trying to be over flattering

here, but honestly, Dude, that
was pretty, pretty, pretty. I

mean, it was hard to see that
you were that kind of person.

Oh, man. And then the more I
learned about you, and just kind

of what you did and how you did
it. It just, it pretty much was

what I thought. It

was great. The last probably 10
guests that we've had on, yeah,

I've sang your praises. Oh, I

love it. Well, people, people
love to hear their name. People

love

you listen to his humility. I
mean, people, people love to

tell stories. Well, they buy out
a big clinic at forks, and I

packed the house. I didn't
anticipate that.

Wow, it's not hard to pack out.
I mean, there's

a there's not a lot already. I
couldn't do it. I couldn't pack

I don't think

anybody's gonna come see Jim
McCarthy's jump drum clinic. I

drunk? Okay? Not a lot of guys
can do

I think after everyone sees you
at May 28 with the Huey Lewis

tribute band at City winery,
I'll be

there. Yeah? Cigarette lighter
in hand. Nice.

I'll keep the fires burned.
Yeah.

God,

hey, Boon got buys you houses,
right? So, so this bass player

was, you know, Joseph Scott,
Joseph lucky. Why'd they call

him lucky?

You know, I never asked him
that, yeah, and it was, it was

always interesting that he would
do that was his nickname. But I

don't, I don't know, you know,
it was one of those things

where, you know, here's this guy
who's from Chattanooga playing

in Curtis Mayfield. Mayfield's
band, as a matter of fact, if

you want to see what he looked
like, because he's passed away,

now, go look up the movie
Superfly. He's in Superfly, the

band that's that's Curtis
Mayfield's band. That's Joseph

lucky Scott playing bass dude. I
used to people used to find out

that I knew lucky as a kid, and
kind of grew up with Lucky, a

really young drummer, learning
from this guy named Joseph lucky

Scott, and I would have bass
players find me on the internet,

yeah, and call me, what was it
like, and what was it like to

play with lucky and ask me, what
was he using to get that sound

for such and so, oh my god. And
I'm like, Dude, I do not know.

First off, I wouldn't have known
because I was a little kid, but

I used to actually see when
Lucky was out in public playing

bass. There will be times when
he would get into certain

sections and songs and he would
turn away so people couldn't see

him from the audience, because
he didn't want other bass

players to see what he was
doing. Didn't

do that in the early days.
Didn't Eddie Van Halen do that

in the early days. Or somebody
would turn their back to the

audience so they couldn't see.

I don't know. I thought Eddie
was, he kind of had, like, the

showmanship was kind of baked
into himself.

It could have been Stevie vi it
could have been, well, I heard

that story, but we were talking
off camera, and so you were

lucky enough to get some like,
like, musical coaching as a very

young person with this bass
player. And what did he tell

you? Well,

he said that you know the best
thing that you can you can learn

and really just kind of take the
heart about music. It doesn't

matter what instrument you play,
if you sing, if you play,

whatever it is, is make sure you
understand that it's a

relationship, specifically, in a
lot of ways. I mean, you're

having a relationship with the
tech guys. You're having a

relationship with the other guys
on the stage. You're having a

relationship with the audience,
the production guys, but, but

really important, you're having
a relationship with the audience

because you want to make that
connection. That's pretty much

to a large degree why you're
doing it. Because you want to

connect with people, but, but
you need to know that the most

important relationship is the
relationship you're having with

the song and how to handle it,
how to treat it. You don't abuse

it. You don't abuse it. You
don't tell it what you want it

to be. You don't force yourself
on it. In a lot of ways, a lot

of cases, the song tells you
what it wants to be. I'm like

anybody else, dude. I have a I
can have a pretty large ego, and

I want to come in, I want to, I
want to do journal on this

thing, dude. But you can always
do that. So you got to find a

place to where. What does the
song want? What does this gig

need? And you humble yourself
and you do it, but, but that

song is, honestly, it's like a
woman or a man, or whatever you

know, but you have whatever
you're into, yeah, you have to,

you have to, you have to, you
have to honor it, yeah, and not

force yourself on it. That the
song, especially if it's a great

tune, it'll tell you what it
wants to be. He'll tell you what

it is.

Well, you're a great all around
player. You recently sent me a

video of you playing a song
called peace accord and, man,

you got it all that popping and
cracking, snare, that back beat,

the power, the chops,
musicality, all the stuff,

man, you know, well, you know, I
sent that to you. I sent that to

a lot of people, actually, you
know, sometimes I'll just like,

send a song to people that I
like, and sometimes it's not

even really a fully formed idea,
but you try to have the

production there, but not, not
too much, not trying to go

overboard with production, but
you send things that you like to

people, because this is
something from your heart. It's

not something that you're trying
to sell, per se. But again, man,

everything. That we do,
especially as musicians or any

other field for that matter,
it's people, you know, we want

to make those connections. We
want to remake those

connections. And so you send it
out there, you just put it out

there, man, and you believe in
it. And sometimes it has wards,

and sometimes it's a little more
polished than others, but you

just

want to share it. That's nice.
And is that your home studio?

Here it is,

it is nice. It is, well, it's my
home studio in Chattanooga.

Chattanooga, I don't have the
room here, here, yeah, but,

yeah, it's my home studio in
Chattanooga. Like,

I like that. You're, you're kind
of, like, you're kind of BI

coastal, man, you guys living in
two cities, man, you know, my

wife is very gracious. That is
awesome. Well, how long you

crazy kids been together? And
how did you

I'm gonna date myself a little
bit here, dude, my we've been

married 25 years. Yeah, and we
actually met at church. My

sister knew her before I did,
and they're probably not gonna

remember this, but my sister was
like, hey, you know I like,

there's someone I really like
for you to meet. And I've always

been that dude that I don't like
being set up. I don't like the

setup and I resisted it for a
while, and then somehow,

someway, we just kind of got
into contact with each other,

and I didn't call her for like,
three, yeah, and then one day I

did. And then here we are, 25
why'd you call Yeah? I saw her

again, and maybe I was just in a
different place. But I think

maybe my eyes were just working
differently that day. Not that I

didn't think she was beautiful
when I first saw her. I don't

know. Maybe I just wasn't at a
place where I was going to be

well, I was receptive. And so I
saw her again, I was like, oh,

was there something about her
that that made you like, you

know, I have a feeling about
this,

yeah, and it's gonna sound kind
of weird, but I mean, I was like

any other single young dude you
date around, you do what, you

know, you do your thing, or
whatever. But I really from from

my wife. I really just got woman
from her. If that makes, I don't

know if that makes total sense,
yeah, yeah. She just, this is a

this is a woman through and
through, yeah, through and

through. This is a woman. That's
exactly how I felt about my

wife. Awesome. So I'm not alone
in it, yeah, it's a beautiful

thing. It really is. I mean, you
just for me, very frightening,

yeah, very frightening at first,
because you're not in control,

you're not in control, and you
just kind of following yourself

down this trail. But yeah, 25
years, she's never come into

conflict with me and music or me
and anything else. She knows

she's first, but music does have
a special Yes, you guys,

did you guys make the babies? We

three, two sons and a daughter.
Nice. Yeah, we have a daughter

who's actually graduating from
high school this year. She's

going off to college, so we will
be officially empty nesters.

Yeah, and we can do some things
that we'd like to do. I'd like

to say I'd like to spend more
money on myself in my studio.

But,

well, what's not until we get
college over travel

or anything, yeah? Like, I'm
curious, because I'm kind of

getting there myself,

you know, yeah, I've traveled
around a lot. My wife, not so

much. So there are a lot of
places I like to take her that

she's never been. So traveling
is definitely one.

What are some of those bucket
list places? Like, are we

talking like? We're going like,
like, corrupt, you know,

Madagascar,

you know, Fiji would be
wonderful. Italy's gonna be it's

gonna happen this summer. You
gotta have Italy's gonna happen

this summer. Are you guys gonna
do Rome and all the stuff? Well,

we talked about doing the grand
tour, but to do the grand tour,

right, you really need a couple
of months. I don't think that's

gonna happen. But you know, my
daughter's gonna study

architecture as well, so it's
gonna be great to kind of go

around and see some of the
churches and just some of those

really, really old places that
everybody sees

on how did they do that stuff
without machinery the human

mind, dude is, I mean, just like
Jurassic Park. You probably

heard this before. Life finds a
way. Life will find a way, or

it's aliens, or it's aliens, I
don't know, but life will find a

way. But so we're going to do
some of that stuff and just

check some stuff off the list,
and just travel around and just

enjoy each other, because it's a
new, it's a new it's a new

chapter in our life. We
literally were pregnant three

months after we said I do. So we
basically have had no life,

yeah, without

so, I mean, I always equate that
to those kids that we felt bad

for in high school who, like,
you know, all of a sudden

they're 1718, and she's
pregnant, you know, and like, oh

my gosh, your life is ruined,
and blah, blah, blah, and then

all of a sudden they just kind
of get married, they forge their

way through it, And by the time
they're in their 40s, they're

done, and they have resources.
Yeah, Jim is

saying it could be a young man,
young person's game, right? You

have the energy, right?

You have the energy, the
resource, which is true, it

parenting takes a lot of energy,
physically, emotionally,

mentally, it does. I

really don't know how you guys
do it. I i Jim asked me, because

I always say, Yeah, you know, I
never did it. I never did it. I

you know, I never did it.

The funny thing is, is that
you'd kind of late. You

mentioned rich in the beginning
that he took your phone calls,

which is the same story for me.
He just kept on taking my phone

calls, and I one time, I think,
texted you. So we were about to

have our second child, and I
reached out to rich via text.

I'm like, Hey, Courtney, can
drop at any moment. Do you mind

if we have you on the list to
watch Cami? Cami, at the time

was like, 1617, months old, wow.
And he's like, did I call you

with them? Now she's in college.
I know. But the funny thing is,

you were willing to do it, ah,
see.

And the fact that you not only
knew it, but not but not only is

it wonderful that you that you
would call, well, like I said,

sometimes you just, you just
know a good apple when you meet

him, yeah, but, but the fact
that not only would he take your

calls being the guy that he is,
but but him being the kind of

guy that you would trust enough
to call Would would you take my

little baby? Yeah, while I go do
this. I mean, it speaks volumes.

I was told I was totally messing
I

mean, I'm afraid of the soft
spot on the skull, you know, I

was totally messing

with him. I just wanted to see
how he'd react. He would do he I

literally, it was a call. I
remember here. You were just No,

you were literally like, you
know, I probably could. I don't

have too much going on, so I and
I'm like, Dude, I'm totally

messing with you right now. Wow.
You were thinking, Can I

accommodate this? I probably
can, yeah, wow, amazing. I

didn't intend for him. I barely
knew you a year at that. Oh,

man,

yeah, but it's okay. It's okay.
We're still friends all these

years later, I think you could

have pulled it off, though.

Let's make him really
uncomfortable this episode and

just talk nothing about rich and
like, completely pour it on. The

world is

riches. The world is riches.
Riches. World. I'm telling

you what. So you study
architecture, and it runs in the

blood.

Well, maybe, maybe not. We. I
told her that, you know, if at

any time, if you decide you
don't want to do this, walk away

from it. Yeah, because it is,
and I'm not saying this because,

because I studied architecture,
it is a very labor intensive

degree all night because all
nighters, there's a lot of

things you have to know. What
you have to learn. Because it's

not just, can you draw well,
it's, how does this wall stand

structural? You understand
deflection? Do you understand

moment? It's engineering. Do you
understand compression? And

then, how do you make that look
good? And while at the same

time, don't spend too much of
the client's money, and yeah, so

it's, it can be a hall, yeah?
Yeah,

interesting, yeah. Because,
like, you know, when you get

the, you know, you got these
cookie cutter neighborhoods, now

we're like, there's maybe, like
three designs, and they'll put

up like 200 homes, yeah. How
does that work? This is called

Spring Hill. Does this home?
Does this home builder come in

and, like, they hire, like, a
staff architect to design those

three buildings. Developers

are a little different.
Developers generally do those.

They just, you know, again, it's
and there's nothing wrong with

this. Everybody's in the
business to make money, and

variety sometimes doesn't offer
itself very well to creativity.

Or the lack of variety, yeah,
doesn't offer itself very well

to creativity. And so a
developer, you know, you want to

make as much money as you can.
So you have these, these basic

formats, these basic floor plans
that you have, of course, you

massage them a little bit. You
give people the the notion that

they can make some choices about
what they're getting. And in

truth, that is the case. I mean,
you get to pick your finishes.

You get to pick your doorknobs.
You get to pick your gold,

silver. Yeah, you get to pick
how much you want to spend on

this. I'm gonna spend in that,
but it's still basically the

same general two or three
formats as what you're going to

get is for sports floor plan.
And that has its place. Yeah,

that does. But, you know, you
get, you get some of these guys

who get to design houses from
the ground up, or get to design

commercial buildings from that
from the ground up. Those people

do exist, but, there's a lot of
risk in that too. Just because

somebody has deep pockets and
they have money to burn, it can

that could be more of a hassle
than working with someone who

knows they had a limited they
have a limited budget. They can

only do so much. I don't care if
the house is $2 million they

know that that's all they have.
For a lot of people, $2 million

home would be amazing, but they
know all they have is $2 million

the client sometimes, ah, do
whatever you want. It could be a

crap show. I mean, because
honestly, they're not making any

decisions. They're not telling
you what to do, and you don't

know, then the worst thing is
they come in. You know, I was

thinking that maybe that that
should be over there or or maybe

those stairs shouldn't wrap
around to the right. They should

wrap around to the left. The

less money you put you spend,
the more illusion of choice you

have. It's like, buying a Honda.
It's an illusion. It's an

illusion. You know, you got a
couple things you can do here.

You can buy an LX and EX, an ex.
L, yeah, you can have some

choices. But it's like, I equate
that to I went from I sold Honda

or cars for a couple years. When
I went from Honda to Mercedes,

it was like, you know, this
little cone of options with

Honda, you knew the trim levels,
what you could generally get

with them. To Mercedes, it was
like, wide open options, yeah,

because you're paying more for
the car well, and

music can be the same way.
Honestly. I mean, if you're

working with an MD. Or you're
working with an artist. You

know, for me, I can't speak for
any other drummer, any other

musician, a lot of times, if I'm
not giving parameters, I mean,

and I say this because, because
another thing that another type

of person I love is comedians
before actors. But I really love

actors because, and I heard
Bill, Bill Murray say this

before, you know, he knows that
he's got a part nailed where he

can feel it in his feet.
Interesting. Yes, Judy Dench is

somebody is

a great, great actor. What do
they mean by that? Well, dense

is still hot. Well,

but I'm gonna tell you. I'm
gonna tell you what. I'm gonna

tell you what I think, Oh, my
God. I mean, I think so too,

because creativity and just be I
mean, there's a lot of things

that makes you comfortable in
her skin. Do anybody? Anybody

can be beautiful, dude.
Attraction is a whole, okay,

Helen Mirren,

yeah. I mean, maybe I'm thinking
of Helen Mirren when I'm talking

about

Judy Dench. Helen mirrens on
1923 right now with Harrison

Ford. I mean,

she's so comfortable in her
skin, man, she does

that. She does that Scottish
Irish accent perfectly she does,

yeah. But the point I was making
is parameters, for me are always

great, because you need, I need
to know a little bit about what

you're thinking to give you what
I think you want. But there's

this thing in architecture also
where you spend a lot of time

educating the client, because it
was always irritating when

somebody showed up and they had
a picture. Hey, you know, can

you guys do this? Yeah? But no,
tell me what you really think

you want, what you really need,
and then we'll talk about how we

can get to point A to point B,
where music a lot of times it's

the same way, you know, I need
that. MD, I need that, that

producer. I need that guy to
give you the to give me some

parameters. Yeah, give me some
parameters to work in so you can

create your little Mo and Lisa,
yeah. Asset jazz is great. But,

you know, having parameters
sometimes is really great. So

anytime anybody I think that's
creative, not everybody works

this way. I do it creatively.
Parameters are good, whether

it's architecture, music,
whatever

I love it. We never discuss
that. So who are some comedians

that just blow you away, like
they're Are you like a bill a

bill burger guy, or you like
more? Mark Marin, like

storytelling.

I can I can be situational. And
I'm not going to mention this

person first, because they're my
favorite. It's just, it's just a

good example. So Dave Chappelle
started out a certain way. Come

on, he started out a certain way
as a certain kind of comedian,

and then he went away for a
while, and then he came back,

and he was a different kind of
comedian, and I think he's still

kind of evolving.

But how about those four
specials on Netflix? You could

watch them back to back over and
over and over again, and they we

in our band after a show, we
will watch these things over and

over again, and it still
resonates, and we still laugh at

the same

Yeah, yes, because it just
depends on where you are that

day. But he just, I mean, and I
think he's still kind of

evolving. It's kind of like a
modern day George Carlin

commenting on, yeah, commenting
on society. But I also love

people, like, I'm gonna butcher
this name. She's gonna have to

forgive me, because I don't know
her, but that's okay anyway. I

anyway, Natasha legero,

love her. Just short, little
Italian, yeah, you know dice

Clay's show. He had a show
called dice, yeah,

another period, it was a TV
show. I mean, just, I don't know

it's just, it's just something
about that kind of stuff that I

love, but I love musicians, not
musicians. Not, not musicians.

I'm sorry. I love musicians that
are really courageous too, but

comedians, comics are really
courageous.

I mean, they're so I was gonna
say that they're so brave. They

go up there and they've worked
their thing out, maybe kind of

sort of, but they kind of know
what they want to do, what they

want to say, but you have to
have a lot of bravery to go up

there. And again, we use this
word earlier, really, be honest,

yeah, and be in that moment.
Honest, yeah, and, but I think

the same way about actors. I
mean, there are a lot of actors

that I could point to that are
just, they're just incredible.

Well, you think is the best one
out there these days? So

I'm that guy when it comes to
movies or just acting in

general. Not that mainstream is
wrong or there's anything wrong

with mainstream. You like art
films? Well, not, not so much

already films, but, but I could,
there's two movies that I could

watch all the time and nobody
would ever have to do anything

else with me. Movie wise. One is
there will there will be blood,

oh, yeah. And, and they're kind
of similar movies. The other one

is No Country for Old Men. I
mean, it's just, they're just,

they're just raw. The casting is
spot on and just the way. I

mean, again, anybody, any actor,
that that can change themselves

into this person. Is believable
the way they walk, the way they

change their voice, they
literally can change their

countless and they become this
character. Yeah, is amazing.

It's something

to so be admired. And you know,
when I was studying, I knew

that. Was never going to be a
wear a wig and do period pieces

and do Shakespeare Well, that
would be utterly hilarious. I

wanted to, I wanted to do parts
that were an extension of my

natural, natural essence. Can
you do a British accent? Rich?

Not. I wouldn't do it because I,
you know, I'd had to. Right here

and now, spot of tea. Keep
going. Spot of tea. Can you? Can

you okay? You keep on saying the
same thing over and over

again. Can you converse like
Ringo, you know? Well,

that's a Cockney. That's a
Liverpool come

upstairs, and we'll young you up
a bit

about making sure everybody's
fans got dyed hair, no belly,

really. And the end, and where's
John Barbados. Wow, he come

upstairs. We young. You up a
bit. Young

up a bit. Come on, yeah. What do
y'all think out there? The old

that's awesome. Wow.

No. But so deep. So when you
were studying architecture, you

were drumming at the same time.
Now, did you do architectural,

architecture professionally for
a while? Yeah,

for a while I did, wow.

And then how are you managing
all the drumming during this so,

so there was, there were some
guys that I met because I went

to architecture school after I
got out of the Navy, and there

were some guys that I met
literally at this music store in

Knoxville. It's called Rick's
music, okay? And I went in just

to buy some drumsticks, and I
just decided I'm gonna sit down

on this. Is it still there? No,
no. I'm gonna sit down on this

kid, and I'm just playing around
on this kid. So these two guys

approach me like, Dude, what are
you doing later? Can we talk

about playing some music? Yada
yada yada. Are you free tonight?

Yeah. Are you free tonight? So
anyway, it turns into this band,

yeah, that was called just water
blonde. And, excuse me, we, uh,

I mean, just we, we had some
really good times. Shared the

stage with a lot of different
people, just very varied. Dude,

just, I mean, everybody from the
crab family to Arrested

Development to to Israel and new
breed, to Victor Wooten, to what

was the

music like? Was it? It

was it was this. It was, it was
like, and

I always struggled to describe
it. It was like,

what's that band out of me?

It's like, is it Jam Band?

No, no. It's a, it's a Christian
rock band, pod. It's like pod

mixed with James Brown mixed
with chili peppers, funky, rocky

overtones. Well, not, not, yes,
but not, not, not so much in

your face, yeah, but, but it was
just us having a great time. So

I was having to mix all dude. I
would, we would, we would go out

on the weekends and and do our
role thing and come back on no

sleep, and then I'm at a
drafting day. I mean, just like,

just like most musicians burning
the candle at both ends, and

just because you love it. I
mean, it's not, it wasn't even

really an option. You didn't
even think about it, yeah, so,

so you just did it. So, I mean,
plus, I was, I was a little

younger at the time, and my wife
was, was, was a lot more

understanding then, and she is
now in a different way, not that

she's not as understanding

now, on a Wednesday, come back
on a Sunday, yeah,

yeah. Sometimes you leave on a
Wednesday, you come back on a

Sunday, and, young, and that was
like, constant, yeah, but, but

you loved it in a passenger van
pulling a trailer behind you.

And is the back line gonna be
crappy when we get there? We got

to use the back line is, I mean,
whatever. Hey,

kid, we got a CB 700 kid, you
like hydraulic heads.

Wait. You want hands on them?

Well, it's the proverbial
picture, dude. Here's the house

kit. It's even worse than the
house kit photo when you get

there, yeah? Dude, yeah. Crazy
camber.

Cambers. Do you like adjustable
snare drum stands at our own

volition, just on their

own. Hey, so And thank you for
your service. So right out of

high school, you're going join
the Navy.

Well, actually, I went to
business school first, then I

went to Navy, and then I went
up. Were you in Mystic?

No,

no. What

was your navy experience like?
And I tell you what the I think

this is crazy to say, but
there's a lot of countries

around the world where military
service is required for two

years. I think it would be good
for some of these entitled young

whippers. That

would be awesome. I talk about
this all the time with people. I

don't I don't think a couple of
years of compulsory active duty

service would be a bad thing for
a lot of people. I mean, I know

a lot of people disagree with
that, but I think it'd be a

great thing because you're only
20 when you get out, right?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, there
was a lot the military taught

me. I thought I had things, some
things together, and I was okay,

because I'd always been a self
starter. I was always kind of

person who didn't need a lot of
outside motivation to do things,

yeah, but there. There was some
things that the military taught

me, especially the way I served,
which I'm really proud of. Some

submarine life is not like
surface Navy life. It's

it's a lot more claustrophobic.
It is.

It is, but, but it's hard to
explain to people. How

long are you down there. It

depend on a mission, yeah. How
was it

a nuclear powered sub? They're
all nukes. Now they're all

nukes. And how many guys were on
the boat with you? The

crew? The crew could be anywhere
from 100 to 120 it just depended

different different departments.
Yeah, of course. You had

strategic guys, you had tactical
guys, you had navigation guys,

engineering guys, people who
knew certain things about

certain things. Everybody had to
know everything, because if half

the crew goes down, these birds
still got to fly. We got to get

these missiles off, yeah. So you
to be qualified. What you get

about when you get a certain
amount of time to do it, you

can't just show up there. You
have to get what's called

qualified, which means you got
to learn every nut every boat.

You got to know how to react to
plant works. You got to know how

to launch. Gotta know how to
launch missiles. You gotta

understand the tactical side of
it. If, if half this crew dies,

and we got nowhere to come home
to because the rest of the world

has exploded, you can survive.
We could survive. But you got to

know this guy's job. You got to
know this guy's job. They start

eating each other. Yeah. I mean,
we know we would take this. We

had to be have the same
intellectual qualifications. And

so it's going to sound kind of
weird, because people think,

well, seals don't have an
intellect. They actually, really

do. But we had to take the same
physicals and we just seal the

seals, the seals and sub guys,
yeah, I mean, your scores, your

qualifications. I mean, they're
like, right up there. You're

like, 1% of 1% some of

that stuff is the is the strange
stuff where you're, like, just

those tests, where you're on the
beach and you're you're cuffed,

and the waters are coming in,
and didn't

do any of that. Oh, yeah, but,
yeah, but, but that was, we had

our portion of crap that we,
that we because, because, you

mean, people would mean, I'm
gonna say this. I don't mean any

disrespect. Yeah, there are some
professions in the civilian

world where turd is the norm,
right? And exceptional

is the exception. Yes, it's
uncommon. It's uncommon

in that in that world,

turd was very uncommon, and you
found out real fast if you're

who the turd was, and and then
what do you do with the turd?

Just one day they're gone. You
flush them. You haze them, well,

no, or slightly

encourage them, like we're only
you encouraged

vigorously, but, but, but
eventually, wind up

they're gone. So you could just
straight up get out of the

military. Well, they're not
holding up your radio.

They didn't know. Well, they
didn't kick you out of the Navy.

It's just you can't do this.
You're a desk jockey now,

whatever. I don't know what they
are, what they send them to, but

you can't, yeah, you can't do
this. Yeah. And sometimes pick

guys with psych eval out of it.
You know this. I mean, you do

get some guys who kind of, kind
of get through the preliminary

valuations, and they show up at
a submarine, because they

literally, 99% of the time, they
know if you're going to be able

to do this before you ever even
see a submarine.

What was the whole crush depth
and how close did you guys get?

I'm not allowed to remember,
you're not allowed. So that's

classified. Really. I legally
cannot tell

you, Wow, it's amazing.

It's great to be bound by the
laws and the government. That's

right. It's

what if we redacted in the
buckets? I

legally there are certain things
I legally cannot tell you,

because

in Crimson Tide, another great
movie with Gene Hackman. Yeah,

right, yeah. I think they said
in that movie it was, like, 1200

feet or something like that. And
it was they could, they came

within like 50 feet, and then
the powers back up, and they

were able to get back up.

Oh my gosh, I can't tell you
this, though, close call. If

some if they actually really
made a documentary or a movie

about what life is like on a
trident ballistic missile

submarine, it lasts about 15
minutes, really. Yeah, it lasts

about 15 is

it that boring? Or the stuff you
can't talk about?

I mean, most, most military
stuff is you just you, it's

hurry up and wait, hurry up and
wait. But when we need you,

yeah, and then, and then you,
then you're told this is what

the mission is. You, depending
on what you do. You're told

about when you're gonna deploy.
You're told about where you're

gonna go. I mean, that's you
know about when you might be

back the movies

that are out there that deal in
these types of scenarios. Did

Crimson Tide come close? Was it
really? I mean, it just seemed

that, like all the language they
were using, all that stuff

consultants, completely
fictional,

really, all Hollywood eyes,
completely fictional, really?

Yeah, it would never happened
that

way. So why not the Navy Band,
that would seem the obvious

choice, less physical. Let

me tell No, let me tell you
something. The Navy Band is so

competitive, really, dude, you
would not believe the level of

rigor it requires you. To be a
part

done talking about the
submarines.

Okay, well, I just know that you
can't legally say,

I like to say about that. But
dude, just if you, if you ever

saw them perform, oh yeah, you'd
understand why. I mean, it's

that whole musical, professional
thing, but, but with military

precision and way of life on top
of it? Yes? So, real precise,

real very precise, very
disciplined, yeah, you have to

want to do it.

And they travel and pretty well.
And you got your retirement, and

you got a paid vacation, you got
dental and medical.

They're soldiers. They're
sailors, yeah? Some good. That's

so good. They're Marines. Yeah,
it's so competitive. It's so

competitive. My dad was in the
Navy. I wish I had more

information, but I know he was
on the sub, really. And when I

was born 1970 when dinosaurs
roamed the earth, he was on a

sub in Loch Ness,

makes sense for the time. Crazy,
right? Yeah, yeah,

exactly in Scotland,

yeah. I said, Did you see the
monster dad? You know what I

mean? Because I was, I love
lockdown, I love Bigfoot, I love

area 51 Marine

inside Loch Ness. I guess really
did

he ever, did you ever ask him
questions about this

is so embarrassing. My dad's
gonna be 80. So as we're getting

to the point where I want to
record his life story, ask him.

You want to ask him all the
questions. And I want to the

next time we get together. And I

did ask, if we do it on the
podcast, it'd be great. We

should. There you go, you know,
but it's

going to be, I'll be publicly
embarrassed about the number of

things I don't know about my own
parent. Well, that's

okay, because, I mean, when
after my my dad passed, I found

out a lot of things about him
from his friends and people that

knew him well. But, you know,
probably as a kid you shouldn't

know,

ditto, yeah, I learned a lot of
things about my dad I didn't

know after he was gone. Yep,

by the way, I did watch two
episodes of F is for family.

Wow, that was the 70s, yeah,
yes, it was

binged.

Awesome. Yes, was

it Laura Linney is the wife,
yeah? And

Justin Long is one of the kids?

Yeah, yeah. He's the one that's
in the, like, the, he's, like,

in the band that's like, Yes,

oh no, Prague rock. Justin Long
is, the is the is the hippie

son, I believe, but he's in a
band, yeah? And it's like, rush,

it's amazing. Yeah, it's
amazing. I've only seen the

first two episodes. He's not in
a band yet. The one where

they get into the fight at the
table, and there's no, they're

like, screaming, and then they
have makeup space, oh no, that's

what I'm talking

about. Where he's getting the
calls, the sales calls at

dinner, and he's like, I'm not
gonna get it. I'm not getting

this boon.

I'll tell you, dude, don't spoil
it for dude. F is the family

where a man has to do what a man
does.

Amazing. It is awesome, dude.
There's only two seasons

of it, yeah, I watched it by
myself, yeah? And then my wife,

she's like, What do you watch?
I'm like, Oh, you got to check

this out. And we both just dove,
right? I swear there's

five seasons,

maybe not a couple. Yeah. Okay,
well, speaking of cartoons, we

were talking off camera. What's
up with that emoji t shirt?

Watch invaders them, and you'll
know invaders m

z i m, invader z i m. And what

streaming service is that on?
Well, it was on

Nickelodeon for a while. Now
it's just it's in syndication,

and I bought it on, I hope I
could say this on Apple TV,

sure, because I just wanted to
have it because I wanted to own

it, because it's so awesome,
yeah, but I'm not real sure

where you can watch it now, but
it's around. You can get it, but

it's just, it's this wild thing,
dude that's created by John and

Vasquez. I think I'm announcing
his last name, right, but he Zim

is an irkin, and his entire
planet are invaders. And what

they do is they go around the
universe and they invade planets

and enforce their will on these
planets. The Earth can weigh on

these planets. Well, this
particular show is about an

invader who's horrible at it. He
literally is the worst invader

that you're ever going to meet
Little does he know that the

leaders who are called the
almighty tallest, they're the

leaders of his people because
they're the tallest. Oh, that's

poor people, and they're
identical. They're identical

because two of them, they're
identical because they're the

same height. They sent him the
earth to get rid of him. But he

doesn't know this, all right?
And as bad as this sounds, he's

actually trying to destroy
Earth. He's the he's the

protagonist. The antagonist is
the kid who knows that. He's an

invader trying to take over the
earth. But nobody believes

him. It sounds like resident
alien.

It may be maybe a little similar
to resident alien.

I mean, it sounds good. I mean,
it's no tribal but I'm wearing a

t shirt

that. That character, Dib. Yes,
dib is the is the antagonist

who's always foiling the
protagonist, Zim. But this is,

this is that kind of faci thing
that DIB wears on every episode.

What's the

one you're watching? Primal? I
watched primal on it was adults.

It was like a five season Adult
Swim cartoon, but very bloody,

very gory, very violent, and a
great soundtrack. So it's I've

talked about it on several
episodes, but I binged it, and

I'll probably watch it again.
It's a T Rex and a caveman who

neither one of them can speak,
but they befriend each other and

they travel the world on an
adventure. Wow,

dude, see, that's what you want,
dude, a buddy, a bro thing,

which dude I'm telling you,
interspecies

bro, yes, story amazing. It's
like,

you know, speaking of Adult Swim
again, hopefully I can say this

world case, totally Yeah, dude.
We have no sponsors. Metal,

ocalis, have you guys seen
metal? Oh

yeah, I've seen them. I've seen
some of the musicians from that

play live, really, at the Improv
on Melrose in LA talk

about soundtrack. Dude, Gene
holder, dude, that show dude,

dude, is incredible. If you
still don't watch it for the

music, it's incredible.

But a metal locker is that on
Adult Swim metal? I don't

think they're not. It's not on
Adult Swim anymore. But again, I

bought it Apple TV, Apple TV,
but it's out there. You can find

it anywhere. But it's just this
really cool show about this, the

internal life of rock stars,
yes, who and they literally are,

like, the eighth largest economy
by themselves, really on the

planet. I'm not gonna spoil it
too much. Just watch it. It's

awesome. And

so speaking of gene, Hoagland,
do you play fast double bass? Do

you like that? I

don't play fast double bass as
fast as gene does. Who does I

mean, jeez. But yes, I dig some
double bass. When I think

Lombardo fast, I never really
heard gene. It depends

on who you ask. A lot of people
would say that when it comes to

that metal double bait, that
gene is, like the gold standard,

but, but I'm not saying that
other guys aren't right, but

gene is also hella musical. I
mean, just, he's just really

musical. I'm not saying other
guys aren't right, but, but,

yeah, he's that metal dude that
just, but

you know who my metal guy was
Vinnie aposy, yes. Car mine's

brother, yes. And he wasn't a
double Basser. He just had a

nice, strong right foot. And
then my double bass chops come

from Carmine, and it's more
about power than speed. So I got

a lot of power and but I'm more
of like a slow foot me and like

Clapton, slow hand, slow foot
would be this amazing band.

Yeah,

that's the challenge that I've
been having with the Huey thing,

really, is that they want me to,
like, at the end of new drug,

they want to accent all the horn
blah, you know, they want to,

like, kind of do back, like,
little, you know, you could do

that, you know, like, what Bill
does in the second part of that

mood got to and he goes, go back
to the groove. Yeah, they want

it done in every single section.
And you listen to some of the

other drummers that they have,
they're

like, more always, are

you saying you'd like to be able

to do that? I don't write. I'm
at the age where I'm like, I

don't need to, like, once about
a time, I'd be like, Oh my gosh,

I gotta learn how to play like
that. Like, I watched Jelly

Rolls drummer a couple of Cody
ash. Cody ash, that dude is a

beast. He's fast. He's really
fast. And, you know, but it's

all the stuff that he's doing.
He's doing a like, you know, a

lot of like, variations with the
kick at the toms and stuff like

that. Dare

I say he's got, he had some
like, you called him modern

gospel chops. It's gospel chops
meets Prague metal. Okay, right?

And he's mixing it up. Yeah,
he's playing with this guy named

Jelly Roll crazy. It's nuts.
He's

like, a metal drummer that found
himself a country gig. Totally.

Well, you know, I mean it. Maybe
you don't want to, you don't

care about it, but you know JoJo
Meyer, great drummer. Love that

dude to death. He's like a real
drummer playing electronica,

yeah. But anyway, he's an
incredible teacher as well. Yes.

And his advice for guys who want
to play faster is just, it's not

all about just building up your
chops to get to a certain speed.

You literally have to learn,
have to have to learn to think

faster, to play faster. And he's
not saying just thought, after

thought, after thought, I
thought. That's not what he

means. He's saying you have to
adjust your mind, yes, to the

speed of what you want to do,
and it can get you there fast.

He's got a whole thing about
Yeah. And JoJo Meyer, I'm

telling you, just as a
technician, the he's pretty

amazing. He is because

when he does his Samba, you
know, so like when I do a samba,

it starts to pick up swinging,
digging, digging, digging,

digging, right? But he's
thinking he's got that second

note in there, right? So he's
right, right? He's got this

thing where he can get all four
No. In there. And I have to

cheat it, you know, we're most
human drummers. Don't take again

gig again, Mere Mortals. Yes,
it's

crazy. We all have the same
musculature, though, and bone

structure, but

some guys might have sort of,
like a they're fast

Twitchers. There's Twitchers.
They're fast Twitchers. Yeah,

yeah. And I guess, and I guess
you can build that up to a

certain degree, but you know, a
lot of stuff is, is, I mean, I

hate to say it like this, but I
just think there's a truth to

it, because it sounds like none
of us have access to it, which

is not the case. Some guys,
honestly, they have a there's

gift to it. I mean, I think a
lot, most a lot of museums, are

really gifted, but, but we're
all different. We're gifted

differently. Even if we play the
same instrument, we're gifted

differently. And you know, and
if you do things a little

slower, that's fine, too. Maybe
you're more musical, you know,

because it's not about how much
you can play or how much bass

you can fill up. I actually
enjoy musicians, honestly, not

because of the less they play,
but they know what to play,

where to play it, when to play
it, and they're literally there,

not necessarily not to be seen,
but they're a servant in how

they approach it. If they're
musical,

like you're talking about now,
to your point earlier that you

made, that the song is gonna
tell you what it needs. Yeah,

it's gonna tell you what it
needs. And that's musical

maturity. That's musicianship
maturity, to me, that you know,

even as I'm getting back into
it, I've been playing since I'm

1112, years old, but for the
longest time, and what's working

against me is the fact that, you
know, building up the muscle

memory and the chops going in
thinking that it's simple music

to play, which it is not like, I
had a guy come up to me this

morning. He goes, he's like,
Well, that's pretty much

straight head music. I'm like,
Dude, you think it is simple,

simple stuff. Dude, can be like,
for real challenging, because

simple stuff, especially if, if
it's, if it's meant to work, it

is what it is, you know, it's
simple, it stands on its own.

Well, you have to handle it a
little, a little differently,

because it's simple. It doesn't
need you to. And I'm not talking

about playing less. I'm just
saying it's just, it's a

simplicity to it. Well, he had
made

the comment. He says, Well, it's
not like, it's, you know, you're

playing Neil Pierre, I said,
Neil Peart stuff. You knew it

was complicated, right? I said,
Try playing if this is it. Yeah,

six got dude, got dude.

That's a lot harder. But feel,
feel is, I mean, not being

insulting towards anybody feel,
a lot of times, it's something

that a lot of people don't have.
You know, field is the kind of

thing. You're definitely born in
it. Well, you can develop and

develop it, but, but it's the
kind of thing that I think

personally feel. Feel is one of
those things that, in some

instances, you have to want it.
You have to want to have great

feel I mean, I've gotten, I've
gotten jobs before

based on your feeling, yeah?
Because

this Gerald is a guy's a great
feeler. Yeah, he's making, he

makes life easy for the rest of
us. He's musical. He understand

how this thing's supposed to
feel. Yeah? And, you know,

without being too technical or
anything like that, because I

know some dudes that they don't
give a credit, they don't want

to talk about the technicality.
Technicalities of anything. I

just want you to feel this
thing. I want to have to not

look her back. I don't want to
have to not look back at Yes,

yes, yes, yes. That's the worst
I've had in these that would

there were just absolute tyrants
in the rehearsal room. And they

would tell you, you know, dude,
I you know. You ask them, Am I

doing a good job? Because you
want to get feedback. And they

go, Well, I tell you what. They
go, Well, I tell you what. You

know, when people are dancing at
the gig, I'll let you know if

you're doing if you did a good
job.

That was the ultimate test in
this. In the 80s and 90s,

playing in dance bands, wedding
bands, corporate bands, how many

people? How long you could keep?
Can you

make that shuffle, bounce,

yeah. Can you Yeah? Can you make
that thing dance? Can you make

yourself without, yeah, so, I
mean, there are a lot of

different ways to evaluate
things, but, but speed is great,

but, well,

I mean, it's, it serves a
purpose to a certain kind of

audience. So you listen to like,
but I came up it was I listened

to, you know, Van Halen was a
huge influence on me. Then it

could be, it became rush, and my
playing level went up a whole

lot more. And then, you know, I
got into, like, the heavier

bands, metallic and Anthrax was
a big influence on me, but that

was all thrash speed and all
that kind of, and I used to play

all the fast double bass stuff,
but it just didn't stick, you

know, because it's like, okay,

yeah, you know what you guys
have in common? What

Carter? Yeah, yeah. I was never
gonna sound like Carter, but

just the way Carter kind of
approached things, to me, was

really freeing. Yeah, you know,
over here, over here, yeah, but

not only that. I mean, he, he
that he and Dave in that band

have me. I mean, the guy gets to
feel over lyrics and

yeah, he's encouraged to do it,

yeah, he gets to play the exact
same set list tomorrow, but not

the same way. Yeah, in

the live version of ants
marching that when I was getting

in the radio in the late 90s,
there was a portion of it where

he would play this. It was like
the Huertas off the symbol the

Tom and the snare drum. You
know, over that burnt, he was

keeping time. And I'm, I would
sit there and listening to it,

going, what the hell is he
doing? Yeah. And then you

finally get the 20,

does it with the feet and the
China's that that it gets right,

yeah.

And then you get under the table
and drumming the video set. Did

you have that? Yeah, I

do the hockey jersey, yes? Well,
I gave it away to a kid. I

rocked, I did, but I had it for
years, but I gave it away my

wife. They're not flattering.
No, they're not.

It's a thing. Or the the wetsuit
that he used to

never, never did the wetsu,
yeah, he

used to wear, like, the spandex
shirts,

amazing man. But it was designed
for him. To him, he could get

away with it. But the rest he
got away. But the rest of us had

to just kind of whatever, yeah,
I was gonna wear the loose

hockey

jersey and do good with it.

If you're a founding member of a
band and you have, you know, an

understanding with the guy
that's singing those songs and

you're writing the songs. I
mean, it's like everything was

lined up perfectly for him to be
able to play the way he wants to

play, you know? I mean,
unbelievable.

Well, well, but I'm on a rich
gush a little bit. Yeah, you

know? I mean, you're a founding
member of a band, as far as I

know.

Yeah, this has been the rich
Redmond show. Subscribe, rate

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