The Rich Redmond Show

Coming to you from crash studios
in Music City, USA, Nashville.

This is the rich Redman show

is up, folks. Yep. Your shock
jock is here rich Redmond it's

time for the rich Redmond show
where we talk about all things

music, motivation success. We
love these things. These things

drive us they inspire us. It's a
reason to live really excited

about today's guests originally
hailing from Saratoga, New York,

calling Music City home for
eight plus years. Today's guests

a fantastic all around drummer
was worked with Top X in New

York City, Vegas in Nashville,
some of which include Mannheim

steamroller a Miles Davis
tribute show that he leads it's

his own band, and Tracy Lawrence
where we got to spend some time

together. Today I'm talking
about our friend Brian, Zack.

What's up, bud?

Hey, how's it going?

Boom, boom, boom. How's that for
a Hollywood intro?

It was fantastic. I love it. I
need to have you with me

everywhere I go.

I you know what, it's, you know,
when I would do it. And of

course, I'd be wearing some sort
of like, portable timpani. So I

can just do that.

There you go. Yeah, man, showbiz
baby.

So this is great. You know, I
remember running into you or we,

when was it we connected in
Vegas? Was it over a decade ago?

Yeah. Would have been an old
friend of mine. Put me in touch

with your wealth. He called me
one day and he said that you're

in town. And he gave me your
number. Apparently he had known

Danny young. Do you remember?
Danny? Yeah.

Danny. Yeah. Danny. Yeah. Danny
ended up making the all those

products. The bald man's stole
man stuff. Yes.

And so he told me you were in
town for a day or two or

whatever it was, and gave me
your number. And I just on a

whim was like, Okay, I'll give
him a call. And see what

happened. I had no idea what to
expect. Yeah, we hung in. And,

and yeah, you you answered and
you said, come pick me up

tomorrow morning. And we'll hang
and I'll give you a lesson and

all this stuff. So we did. I
picked you up at the MGM. We

drove over I had this at the
time I had this lock out studio,

where I kept my drums. Yeah, we
went in there. And it was so

funny. I remember it really like
it was yesterday, because we got

in there. And you asked me to
start playing. And so I don't

know, I was playing. I don't
even think I was playing the

music. I was just grooving on
something. And I went straight

through my snare drum head.
You're like, Yes. Which I never

do that. Like that never happens
to me. You know, breaking a

snare head is like a really
uncommon occurrence. In my

world. I hit hard, but I just
don't break heads. I don't know

what it is. No,

I pit them. I don't I don't
break them back in the day when

I was using ambassadors. Geez,
but I haven't seen. I haven't

seen an ambassador in years.

It was just the most bizarre
thing. And I remember just being

shocked. And I looked up at you
and you're just laughing like,

hysterically. And it we just
bonded. Like that's just a

moment of like, Oh, yes, like
drummers just you know, this

happens to I don't

know what the heck I would have
showed you because you're such a

great player. But maybe maybe it
had planted a little bit of germ

in the back of your mind like
hey, man Music City. Yeah,

I think so. I mean, we did a lot
of mostly talking, we talked

about career stuff, and ya know,
trajectory and how to go about

that kind of thing. Yeah. And
yeah, you know, I guess

probably, it might have planted
a seed. I mean, there were there

were various moments in my Vegas
years where I thought, Hmm, wow,

those guys in Nashville are
really playing their butts off,

you know, and I'd have to play
the I was playing in like a

country covers band, and I have
to learn the songs. And you

know, and I mean, I hadn't
typically listened to any of

this stuff before. So it was all
new to me learning this music.

And I loved it. You know, I
mean, we all do the ElDeen all

the Rascal Flatts and, gosh, I
mean, there was just so much,

you know, Dierks Bentley. And,
you know, and I'm just remember

hearing this music in in, like,
remarking to myself, wow, like,

this is real, like, these are
real musicians playing in a real

studio still, you know, because
so much of the stuff you play in

Vegas is all the Lady Gaga and
like the sort of copy and

pastes, you know, tracks and
there's not really any humans on

a lot of that stuff. And I've
just loved human playing, you

know, so it really spoke to me
even back then.

Well, I'm glad you ended up here
and I know another situation

that kind of, like, planted a
seed. I mean, let's face it,

this truly, I mean, there is
music happening in a lot of

metropolitan areas, but this is
just seems to be a very robust

city. You Every one is coming
and we still for the most part

get together in the same room
and do stuff now your if you

guys aren't watching this,
you're just listening. Brian is

in this killer he's got his man
cave above the garage that he's

converted into a beautiful
studio I'm in my man cave above

my garage that I've converted
into a studio. And it's just

kind of like a way of life and
that was traffic is getting a

little bit worse and we're
becoming a real real city. We

are sending files to each other
you know, it's more affordable

and it cuts down on the the
travel time and all that kind of

stuff. So your your room looks
fantastic. Now you're here eight

years, but let's go back. You
studied with Gordon stout at

Ithaca met Correct? That's
right. So the funny thing about

Gordon is now I studied with
Alan Shin, who was a all around

percussionist. And then when I
went to North Texas State, of

course, Dr. Trauma, Ron Fink,
all around percussionist, and

then of course, the great ed.
So, Henry oxido, mostly drumset

players. But the thing about
Gordon Gordon is a world

renowned. virtuosic, marimbas
Ste. Yes. And I can totally

relate to your story because I
studied classical percussion,

and I did all my Psycho I'll be
in my yellow after the rain and

all the probably played all
sorts of stout pieces and right.

But I was a drumset player.
Yeah, I mean, at the heart of

it. Totally

the same. Yeah. Right. And
always knew there would make no

mistake there was I always knew
I'm a drumset player playing the

marimba. And, you know, I didn't
have a natural ability on that

instrument, like I did with a
drum set.

Did you have piano training?
grown up a

little in high school? Yeah,
that always helps. And I used to

play like, My father played
piano. And so there was a piano

in the house all the time. And I
would just kind of figure out

songs by ear and stuff. So yeah,
yeah, right. But yeah, Gordon, I

mean, I don't think I ever heard
Gordon play a wrong note ever in

the four years that I studied at
Ithaca and it's

easy to do on a four mallet
marimba piece because oh, man,

just graze that note the wrong
way. Yeah,

yeah, he's he's just amazing.
And his I mean, he could you put

anything in front of him he
would just read it like like

it's nothing you know, just like
he's reading the newspaper the

breakfast you know, it's just
like, yeah, you It's

interesting though. All the work
that goes into to mastering say

like your Lee Howard Stevens or
your Gordon stout or your Keiko

abi, and there's a new
generation of these stellar

marimba seats that are that are
forming, you know, as we speak,

there's two things you do you
teach. You write books, and then

you have to go out and appear as
a soloist? Yeah. With orchestras

and chambers. What a grind. I
mean, that is a tough life.

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, unless
you start landing those those

gigs, you know, playing
concertos and stuff with the

with the symphonic orchestras. I
mean, that sounds like that

could be a cool gig. You know,
but yeah, that's a tough world

to break into. I bet. But
obviously,

he was like, I know what you're
gonna do. Let's, let's teach you

musicianship on this instrument.
Cuz there's so much you can

learn from it. As far as like,
the touch and tone production in

your hand. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

All right. Yeah. I mean, much of
our lessons were about phrasing

and just motion. And like, if
you had, for instance, if you

had a repeating no of any kind,
it would never be played like

static unless it was meant to be
static. But otherwise, you you

know you, you're going somewhere
with that note, it's

crescendoing today crescendoing
it's moving to someplace. And so

I would take those lessons on
the marimba with Gordon and take

them to my drumset in the
practice room to the drum set

and apply all of that
musicianship to the drum set.

You know, and think of just the
idea of like, sit down at the

drum set and think of the drum
set as a marimba as a as a

melodic instrument. Like, you
know, we're getting into some

heavy concepts already here. You
know, that's, that's good.

It's a weapon in the wrong
hands, the drumset it really is,

for sure. And yeah, just, it's
just all about thinking in a

musical way. You know, how do I
play in a musical way where

people aren't holding their ears
like when you stop playing the

black beats? Yeah,

that's that that is the one
style that I just do not do. You

know, I'm sure you're familiar
that but the thing is, is that

if folks aren't familiar with
you, and I will say that go to

your websites are great, very
robust website, the spelling of

your last name, Zack CZ, a CH
what nationality is that? What

are the roots that is Polish and
my father was 100% polish so I

have

you do that for OGIS at the
holidays and all that stuff?

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Kill bosses and pierogi
He's in. I mean,

I always love the potatoes, the
potato.

Oh man, potatoes and onions.
Yeah,

yeah, I know where I'm coming
for the holidays. So anyways, if

people go to your website they
can see you are you are in all

around drumset artists so
there's no style really that you

haven't covered because when you
were doing you've done cruise

ships we'll get into that you've
done tons of tribute shows the

Carole King's the Bee Gees, the
end where you have to be a

reader. You do big band reading
you lead small groups. I see

videos of you doing jazz
brunches. You do multi genre

recording sessions and then then
you're on the road with us doing

Tracy Lawrence. So you're like,
you know, bringing the drum

parts of like teddy bears and
Lonnie Wilson and so you do

everything and that's what I
love about your playing is that

you are an all around stylist,
musician, and that's why you

having lived in New York and
Vegas, perfect city, perfect

city for you to be in tell us
about what happened after

college.

Well, after college, you know
you graduate with this

performance degree and then you
go well, what now? You know, and

it's you know, it's a good isn't
exactly a music industry Mecca.

Yeah. There's a lot of
creativity there. And there's a

lot of cool stuff happening in
the arts world, but to make

money is nearly impossible. And
I sort of bumped around if that

go for almost a year until a
friend of mine called me up one

day and he said he was going
down to New York City to

audition for this cruise ship
agency. And he was like, Do you

want to come? And I didn't even
have to think about it. I was

like, Yeah, I just, I mean, I
was just interested in a free

trip to New York City. I didn't.
I wasn't really interested in

working on the ship at all. I'm
so

curious as to what this audition
was because sometimes, I have

heard about guys doing auditions
over the phone where the

contractor is like, Play me a
boss up play me a samba plenty

to beat Lamia to force swing.
playing rugby

once but it wasn't a cruise
ship. It was some other

audition. I did that over the
phone once. Yeah, that was

really awkward. Hilarious. But
no I so I went down to New York

and I auditioned. In the moment
the audition was done. They were

like, great. When can you leave?
And I was like, I didn't have a

passport. Like I you know, I had
to break my lease for my

apartment at the time. Like, you
did thing in order. Nothing.

Yeah. But it was like, Okay,
give me a month to get all these

things in order. And I'll do it.
And that was it. And a month

later, I was out on the high
seas. Okay,

so now, I'm jealous because
you're, you're a young man,

you're probably what? 2223 24
years old, something like that.

Right? And I was asked to do so
many cruise ship gigs. And I

always managed to stay and I
never did. I never went and did

it. I was like, oh my god seeing
all these Caribbean and European

beautiful places. And I'm sure
just like you're single and then

just the women and the nightlife
and, ah, had to be fun, man. It

was fun. It was good fun for a
good while. I mean, a lot of it

did depend on the band that you
were in who was in the band, you

know who you made friends with?
Sort of your circle of friends.

I mean, the status of the band,
because there's, there's

featured as they get treated a
little bit better, right?

Yeah, yeah. Even like the
company that you were working

for, you know, it varied pretty
greatly. At the time, I was with

Holland America. And so we were
treated quite well I have to say

in hindsight, the ship I was on
was an older ship. So the rooms

the cabins were big. And we had
a couch and everything in there

like that, you know, that would
count Yeah, with the newer

ships. And you know, we could we
could walk anywhere in the

passenger areas as long as you
were in the correct uniform. And

you know, go to the bars drink
or you know, meet the passengers

Yeah, I mean, it was very the
food we will get we could eat in

the dining areas. So we didn't
have to eat like in the crew

mass area at

all because they're in the
bowels of the ship. Yeah, I

mean, the the quality of in food
is quite different between the

other is a crew guy give him the
swill. Yeah,

I know. Yeah. And if you're out
there for like, you know, I

mean, I was doing four month
contracts. I mean, they'll get

old really quick, you know,
well,

you could get off right and
explore like, oh, let's go get

some conch fritters and come on.
Now, we

had a lot of time off. Even on a
work day, we probably would work

about three or four hours a day
if that you know, on some days,

I mean, so you could get off and
go see whatever port you were in

and, you know, kind of I mean,
you you're in this sort of seven

day pattern. So you start to
learn what's where and what

Island and where the good
beaches are versus the bad

beaches and all that stuff and
you start to figure out those

things out. And yeah, it was a
great time. I mean, the

nightlife was fun. You know,
like you said, I mean, you're a

single guy, and you're just, you
know, out there just yucking it

up with a bunch of other
singles.

Didn't you eventually meet your
bride on the ship? Eventually?

Yes. It was the Yeah, the the
last contracts that both my wife

and I did we met and started
dating. And just kind of by

coincidence, we both had the
same sign off date of that

contract. Wow. And I told her, I
said, you know, I'm moving to

New York City. That was the
plan. And I don't know what your

plan is. But it would be great.
If you know, you could come to

New York also. Work out. Yeah.
So she about a few months later,

she made it to New York, she got
a visitor's visa, because she's

from the Philippines originally.

Now, what was she doing? She had
to answer. She

was working at the front desk as
a receptionist, kind of that

that job. And we wouldn't have
met except that she was the

director of the Filipino crew
show, which my band had to play

rhythm section four. So like
once every two weeks or

something like that, we had to
play this show. And she was a

director. And we would play the
show. And then after the show,

there'd be a big party in the in
the crew area for everyone in

the show. And that was where we
met and started mangling. So

mix the mix and mingle now, I
usually will listen to one other

podcast to prep for my
interviews. And where was this?

You did a gig I'm thinking where
you ended up playing the entire

stage. And you're playing stands
and monitors and tables and

floors? And yes.

Oh, gosh, we're going back?
Well, you're

the guy, you were the guy that
you would like it's a it's a

Krupa. thing, let's start on the
floor time and then work our way

around the room. Yeah,

it was literally the Sing, sing,
sing song. And the bit in the

show was for the drummer to come
up, like stand up, like come

around the drums, all while
playing the stands and the

cymbals and whatever you could
reach, and then eventually make

your way down all the way to the
front edge of the stage, and put

on a show with the drumsticks.
And like nothing else, there's

nothing, there were two
monitors, there's like two wedge

monitors down there. And that
was all I had to work with. And

so I started getting into, like
figuring out little tricks that

I could do with the sticks and
just try to put on a show of

some kind because honestly, I
mean, I was so out of my

element, especially the first,
like couple times doing it,

because, you know, the drum set
is your safety net. You know,

it's like your safety, you feel
like you're invincible back

there behind all these drums and
cymbals. The moment you leave

the drums, you know, especially
for this 25 year old or whatever

I was at the time, you know,
it's like, what do I do with my

hands? What how do I stand? You
know, like, oh, my gosh, people

are looking at my legs. Like,
right, let's do eyewear, you

know, ya know, it's a very
uncomfortable feeling when

you're not used to that. And so

yeah, so you benefited because
it brought you out of your shell

just a little bit. And you had
to learn about Yeah,

I guess so. I mean, I was, yeah.
And the singer that I was

working with, I mean, he was, he
was, he's a he's a trained

actor. And, you know, he would
be on. I think he was in West

End shows and stuff like that in
London. And so he would help me

just with a blocking and just
always sort of give me helpful

hints about do this, do that
don't do that kind of thing. You

know, smile, make sure you
smile. And even if inside,

you're like, all torn up, you
know, smile. Yeah. I mean, it

goes a long way. You know? What
a cool thing, man. Yeah, it was.

And I did that for a long time
then. Because he was a headliner

act on the cruise ships. I would
travel with him over 10 years, I

did that gig with him while you
know, off and on the different

ships and we would go to Europe.
I mean, we do the Mediterranean

every summer, and I saw a lot of
cool places like that show.

Yeah, man.

You still have the bug to
continue to travel

internationally here. And there.
You just like I'm cool. I saw

the world.

I mean, I quite a bit. I'm cool.
You know, because I have seen a

lot of stuff. Although funny.
You mentioned that this morning.

I got a call to play a couple of
shows in Japan. Ah, yeah. So I'm

excited about that. Because I
haven't been to Japan in gosh,

maybe almost almost 20 years.

I've seen everything but Tokyo
got to go to Tokyo.

It's like, it is so wild. There.
It's like, I mean, it's it's

fascinating and there's really
Nothing like it that I've

experienced because you can't
really read the language. Unless

there's something translated.
It's almost like being like on

the moon or like an alien planet
or something. Because, you know,

you're walking down the street.
You can't read any of the street

signs. You don't know what
anything is at a hardware store

or at a restaurant. I don't
know. You know, it's, it's wild.

Yeah.

It's such an incredibly unique
people. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But and especially, there's so
there's so great with musicians

and artists. I mean, there's so
attentive, it's the some of the

best audiences I've ever
performed for ever. A lot of

respect there for the arts. Oh,
man. I mean, we I played the

blue note and Tokyo in Wow, did
hear a pin drop in that room.

They're listening. They're
listening. They're there to

listen and meet you afterwards.
Show you respect. And I mean,

it's, it's wild. It's very
different. Yeah. Very cool.

That is so so cool, buddy.
Incredible. This is this is my

fourth year of getting this
card. This is my card carrying

sag AFTRA. So the idea of like
being away from the drums, I was

always a thing, like, and I do
something in life that is

creative, where I am not buried
behind all this wood and plastic

and metal. And I just pushed
myself to do it. And I have a

natural affinity for it. But I
could totally relate to that

where it's like, that is our
comfort zone back there. And

it's good to occasionally, you
know, get up and play a

tambourine and sing a background
vocal or jump on some conga

drums. And you know what I mean?
Like, get out from that

thing? Yeah. Yeah, it's true.
Sometimes I have like guitar or

bass player envy, because these
guys can walk around with their

mobile. Yeah. Right and move
their, you know, put one leg up

and you know, your back they're
like, I can't

move. I wouldn't be dangerous.
If I played the bass, I would, I

would work that crowd like it
would be criminal. So tell us

what Bureau were you in, in New
York, any funny stories?

I live. So I live in Queens. I
first started out in Kew

Gardens, which is like way out
there. And then eventually, my

wife and I, we moved to
Woodside. And we rode the seven

train. I'm a huge New York Mets
fan. So we would go see the New

York Mets at Shea Stadium.
Anytime that we could we didn't

have a lot of money at the time.
So it was you know, it was a big

deal if we were going to the
game. But

get that pretzel and hot dog.

Oh man. I mean, yeah. I love
baseball. So that I mean, that

was That wasn't why I moved to
Queens. It just happened to be

an apartment. A friend of mine
had a, you know, a bedroom open

up and an apartment. And that
was where I ended up, you know.

But yeah, it was great. I mean,
New York, New York will humble

you, man.

Well, yeah, the city that never
sleeps, and it's just yeah.

Everything.

Like that's mundane about your
life is way more difficult.

They're like doing laundry or
just parking your car.

It's a thing. Like, oh, grocery
shopping is a thing. Yes,

parking is a thing. And I feel
like that in Los Angeles. It's

like, just like, there's so many
people in these little boxes and

the sun's beaming down on them.
But just just to get into the

Vons parking lot and find a
space and just creeping along,

you know, Sunset Boulevard,
bumper to bumper. It's a thing,

man. Yes.

For real? Yeah. Yeah, it'll make
you grow old faster, I think.

Yeah. I mean, I loved it, you
know, but eventually, you know,

when you turn 30 years old, and
you start looking at life a

little bit differently, and you
start wanting different things.

And you know, and you're looking
down the road, 1015 years and

trying to picture yourself,
where am I going to be at? You

know, sometimes your priorities
change a little bit. I mean,

sure, it asked me, Would I ever
leave New York while I was

living there? I will probably
would have said No way man like

New York. You know, I'm a New
Yorker. You know, I'm tough,

man. Yeah. But eventually, you
know, another opportunity comes

up and you go, Okay, this is
kind of cool. And this is at a

good time. And so, you know,
Vegas here we come. And that was

when I moved to Vegas. And it
was like, wow, sunshine, like

320 days of the year. I do

like the sunshine. I'm not crazy
about the 100 degrees at night

indulgence. But

right now, he is intense there.

I do spend a lot of time there
because my girl, Kara hers folk

her folks are out an anthem.
Okay, you sure? Yep. You can see

the city. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah,

it's a different climate. And
there's I mean, you know, it's

just different. I mean, the sky
is way bigger in the west and

there's mountains and you know,
snow atop mountains and stuff

and I mean, the highways are,
you know, huge and you know,

really nice because there's not
any potholes because they don't

have any winters out there. You
know, it's just a whole

different thing out there. You
know, what

was what was the gig that
brought you there? Well,

it wasn't really. I mean, it was
sort of a gig. It started out.

It was a Christmas show that was
with that same singer that I was

doing those ship contracts with.
And he had, he was living there

at the time, and he knew he was
friends with Clint Holmes. All

right, the Clint Holmes was
doing a holiday show at the

Sahara. And they got me in on
the gig. And that was my first

like, literally, a couple of
days after moving there. I was

in a show room at the Sahara,
playing with Clint Holmes.

So you did the you're one of the
many drummers have done Klinsky

Oh,

yeah, I guess you could say
that. Technically. I mean, I

wasn't part of his, his run of
shows where he was, I think he

was at the Flamingo. Maybe he
was he might he might have

jumped around. He had a band
like a show. That was like 567

nights a week. I don't know how,
like how often it was. So he had

his guys that he would always
call upon, you know, the horn

section and everything. This
This was after that had ended

for him. And so he was at the
time, he was just kind of

contracting shorter runs. So,
yeah.

So because I just had breakfast
with our pal Larry aberaman. Do

you know, Larry, he did Zumanity
for 18 years. Right. So I saw

the first night of Zumanity
opening night. Wow. Crazy. It

was crazy back in the day. And
we kept in touch over the years

fantastically. Of course, you've
lived here now.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We knew each
other a little bit in Vegas. I

went to his senior recital, when
he was finishing it. I think it

was his graduate degree. You got
to add to UNLV. Yeah, yeah. And

so I knew he was playing. He's a
great player. And I did see him

play the show. Also, there's
humanity show, although you

wouldn't really see him because
he was hidden away

the whole entire show styles.
Lot of styles.

Yeah, that was wild. He did that
show for a long time. And so

yeah, he's here now. And you
know, we since had coffee, I

don't know the months ago and
hooked up. And he's been

throwing me work even like,
that's perfect.

Well, this, but he's that kind
of Larry's that guy like

yourself. It's like you're cut
from the same cloth. And I

consider myself the same way.
But no one would know it because

everyone just says he's the bass
rock. Because we're on tour

together. It's easy to see like,
that's what he does. Right. But

I mean, you guys can cover just
about anything in you. And you

read, and you got a great
musical mind. So I could see how

you would throw each other work
would be me.

Yeah. Yeah. I kind of it kind of
fits. I think so. Yeah. About

being versatile and authentic in
whatever style that you're, you

know, trying to perform. So.
Yeah, Larry's great. And I have

so much respect for him. I mean,
he, he came to town and it was

just like, he just got thrown
right into the scene. He got

busy fast. Yeah. Yeah. And
there's no wonder why. I mean,

he's, you know, he

can cover it. Well, you too. And
we were you know, we were doing

the Tracy Lawrence thing
together. And I, we had a good

what? 20? Something 30 shows?

I don't know if it was that
much. Or maybe it was

maybe it was 2015 to 20 shows
Maybe? Probably

less than that. Even maybe 10
show like that.

Did we do we did we do the one
is the venue in the north? I

want to say like eight shows I
do we do Guilford together New

Hampshire where they where we
got to hang because we did two

nights. Yes. And they've got the
they got a cigar bar. They got a

Whiskey Bar. They got Oh, man
the whole backstage. firepits.

That's impressive back there.
Yeah.

The best hospitality.

Best totally, totally. And, you
know, and you and I were having

fun because we were sitting on
in on each other's kids too.

Yeah, I remember I got pictures
of me playing your kit. And and

I've some pictures and video of
you playing Mike it too. Yeah.

Fun. So yeah, obviously, you
know, our setups are just

completely different from each
other. So we were both kind of

like, how the hell do you play
this thing? Well, everybody,

everybody sits down. What is
going on with a snare drum like,

I don't know, man, I just set it
up that way the first time and I

never changed it. That was 40
something years ago. So tell us

about the traditional grip. I
know you wanted to talk about

that. You know, I started
playing drums in 76. And my

teacher was a rock drummer who
played match scripts. So

literally, I never learned to
play traditional grip. I think

it's so cool, especially when
you're playing you know, bumps,

bumps, bumps, bang, and you get
the cigarette hanging out of

your mouth. And it just got a
thing to it. Right.

Yeah. I mean, you know, to be
honest, I grew up playing match

grip, also, all the way up into
my senior year of high school.

And I had this great band
director, Peter Drew, if you're

listening, you know and what's
up Peter? Yeah, he he brought he

would bring in guest artists
from time to time so I remember

he brought in Bob mincer once
and yeah Y'all got to play with

him. But one one time he brought
in this guy named Jim Pietrzak.

Now if you know that name, but
Jim used to teach at SUNY.

It was Sutter's, that was
Sutter's teacher. Yep. It was

the northern one. What does it
not purchase? Yep, yeah. And so

he came down and did like a
master class with the Jazz

Ensemble. And then I stayed late
and had a little drum lesson

with him. Well, he's a Trad grip
player. And turns out I think he

taught Dave Weckl in his early
years. And so yeah, there was

this lineage of like, you know,
some of his students and so I

had no interest in learning
traditional grip whatsoever at

the time, but he just insisted
on showing it to me showed me

the grip, he showed me how it
worked. And I was kind of like,

you know, I'm a senior in high
school, like, I'm ready to go to

music school. I'm like, I'm not
gonna start over with a new

grip. Like, what are you doing?
Yeah, killing me here. No. But

funny enough, you know, as, as
the weeks after that lesson went

by, I started just sort of
messing around with it at home.

And like, on my lessons, just
doing my snare drum etudes and

stuff. And it's, I just noticed
that it felt different. Like

something about it, the stick
bounces different something it's

like, and then I started to,
well, let's try this on the

drumset and see if that feels,
you know, and I mean, I remember

feeling really awkward at first
and really like, Man, my left

hand is like a piece of meat
right now, you know, and I still

can picture myself trying to hit
the left side crash cymbal with

my left hand, and having to
like, I remember, like, being

like, what do I do with my
elbow? Like, oh, okay, so if I

bring my elbow up like this,
it's easier. If I put this maybe

if I put the symbol higher,
well, that works too. Okay? You

know, or like hitting the hit
the symbol of my elbow comes

down like this, Oh, okay. You
know, all these little things

that you start figuring out. And
it just started me on a journey

with that, and I'll say this
simultaneously, you know, I'm,

like I said, ready to go to
music school. I was, at the time

just checking out all the great
jazz and fusion drummers of the

time. So yes, Dave Weckl, Vinnie
Colaiuta, Steve Gadd chambers

yeah Dennis chant, like all the
all the guys, you know, and

going back further, a lot, you
know, into the sort of straight

ahead jazz world you know, Tony
Williams, DEC Jack vision net,

Max Roach, Elvin Jones, all
tragic grip players. So I'm

like, Okay, there's something
here that I want to copy and

become that Yeah. And so I just
stuck with it. And before you

know it, I just started playing
like that. Probably 90% of the

time.

It's great that you stuck with
it because sometimes when we're

presented a situation like this
is incredibly awkward. Like me

working on my acoustic guitar
chops. It'd be like my fat

fingers. This isn't happening. I
my right hand. Like my right

hand is great because I can go
dang J gauging the left hand is

just

thought and I'm like, I know
same. I'm like all cramping up

and Yeah, same. Yeah, totally.

But it's cool. Now did you do
you do a guy in Vegas? He was in

we were in school together.
We're in the two o'clock lab and

together Un t he played with the
Frankie Valli show, or it was he

played with was a Mamma Mia or
what's the Frankie Valli show

where the drummer's on stage
boys dirty boys. So Don Milolii

I know I'm very well. So Don and
I were in college together and I

forget what they used to call
him. He had a great nickname but

dance, he's switching college to
traditional grip. I'm like you

are brave. Do you have to
rebuild everything in it ended

up working out great, you know,
he ended up sounding sounding

great with him. I was like, I
don't think I can do I don't

think I can keep up with
everything I'm responsible for.

And go back to square one.

Well, I'll say this. I mean,
it's been a long journey with

the track grip. I mean, there
are times periods of my life

where I developed some pain and
some problems and really had to

sort of take a few steps back
and re examine everything and my

setup changed. There was a deep
into a double DVD that Steve

Smith came out with I was would
have been like early 2000s. And

he talked about the grip and
like the motion and stuff and it

really kind of showed me I was
like, oh, there was a few like

key ingredients that I had
missed along the way. I mean

that the main thing that was the
hardest developed to develop was

the power right this to getting
the same power as the match

grip. It was the hardest thing
to develop and having the

endurance and the You know,

did you ever get one of those
giant key Carla goiters in there

in the in the corner like, wow,
you can name him

to this day I yeah, I mean it's
you know, especially if I play

like a lot of hours, you know?
Yeah, a little bit I have a good

little you know, Callison there.

He mean back in the day when we
were kind of in Dallas kind of

coming up he was playing a group
called Dallas brass and electric

he just swept and back in Utah.
He had this giant thing. Yeah,

crazy. Yeah. And I I watched his
grip too. And I don't know how

he does what he does, because he
does it different than I do. He

holds the stick back further.
And my I owe us much more of a

molar kind of a stroke where
it's, you know, the power is

coming from the shoulder and the
upper arm. Yeah, you're just

whipping it down. I don't see
him doing that as much. He's

much more like just straight up
and down. And he's using the

thumb and very open handed like,
I don't I don't know how he does

also what's what's, it's
heartbreaking when I would watch

this happen and be like, how
does he do that? I can't do

that. It's never gonna work for
me. Whenever he plays it back,

me he plays for notes, he played
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,

right? I mean, I mean, oh, my
god, pocket and the power and

then be these four other notes,
posted

notes. I know, I know. Well, and
that's the beauty of the tread

grip is that the hand is under
the stick. So it's a lot easier

to bounce the stick, really,
it's just you just kind of let

it go. And it does what it's
gonna do, you know, whereas with

the mask grip, your hand is over
the stick. And now you sort of

have to almost manipulate it to
get four bounces like that, you

know, it's a different
technique. But yeah, one is not

better than the other, they're
just different and I still will

switch back to match grip for
certain things. If I if I want

to get into a character like I
don't know, John Bonham or you

know Keith Moon or something and
just think of players like that

bring

their essence out. Yeah, yeah,
you know, then

I'll try then I will switch to
match I'll still use the butt

end of the stick and just you
know, AC DC, you know, style.

So who so who would have been
your your whole your holy grails

your Mount Rushmore wars of
drumming heroes? Is it with the

typical guys are there some guys
that we were like, Oh, that's

interesting. That's pretty
unique.

I always gravitated and still do
to the clean players. The studio

guys so gad was my first like,
oh my god, this guy is the best

light and godly trees time.
Yeah, exactly. Now, have you met

Steve? Steve got no I've never
know. I've seen him play twice

with James Taylor. I've never
seen him up close even playing

you know, it's always been, you
know, at the arenas and stuff

and maternal clock. Oh, he's
incredible. He's just to this

day.

I mean, he's one of a kind.

He's at my gosh, he's just
killing it out there. You know?

Yeah. So he was the first one
that I really got into and I you

know, I had lesson lessons with
different instructors along the

way who showed me some of the
stuff that he was like the six

stroke roll and the stuff that
he was into the random accuse

and the army and of that solo
that he would always play.

Did you pick up the Gammons
book?

I have it Yeah, it's it's
amazing. Oh my gosh, yeah, it's

kicking my butt that thing. I
need to work more out of it.

Because

that's gonna be my my backstage
warmup this year. I was

flam tap, just go slow. Like you
don't even need to play it fast.

Like just go slow. And it's
like, oh my word. I started like

seeing stuff come out of my
playing just like well, I don't

even mean for that to happen.
Awesome. But ya know, like, I

always gravitated towards the
clean players like John J.

Robinson. I mean, you know,
obviously, Jeff Porcaro. You

know weckl Vinnie, all those
main guys all those like guys

that are just super articulate.
I love Phil Collins growing up,

you know, I'm a I'm a child of
the 80s. So, anything with Phil,

I can instantly recognize Phil
Collins playing like, how does

he do that? Like how, how does
he play a back beat groove? Like

nobody else can? I just don't
know.

What's that? What's that song
from Genesis or his solo career?

I forget but it's there's a horn
section. And there's a handclap

on beat three.

And that was a Genesis song.
Yeah, what did the name of that

No, no, no, no. No reply. No
reply at all with the horn

section. Fantastic. Man. I

have studied that track and
still do and that's a good one.

Try to make it feel like that is
all my gosh, yes.

So definitely the clean players
me as well. Because I had a

studio mentality is like how can
I get in that room with all

those microphones and create
some think that'll last forever

that people were in elevators,
and supermarkets. Okay, you

gotta learn how to play clean.
But also, interestingly, in

another way equally beautiful is
I wouldn't consider Keith Moon

clean at all, but it is so

perfect. Yeah, in a way. It's
very precise. You're

just like Zig who is not? Right.
bleen but it's perfect. Richie

Hayward was not, but perfect.
But yeah.

Even Ringo. I mean, yeah, I
agree. Charlie Watts, you know?

Sure. I mean, yes. Those those
players that you mentioned, have

that swagger. You know, but But
you wouldn't put Charlie Watts

in on a click track with like, a
studio band. You know, I don't

think anyway. No, I don't think
that ever happened. You know?

Don't know, I mean, but then you
can go to Ronnie Scott's with

his band and play springs bang.
Right. Well,

and that's what he would write.
I mean, that was really that was

what he really wanted to do.
From what I know, Oh, yeah.

Now what about what's your jazz
Holy Grail? Mount Rushmore?

Gosh,

I mean, you know, when I was
young, I mean I was just being

fed from my I come from a
musical family so my father my

uncle's my grandfather, you
know, multiple generations. So

all of my family members and
friends of theirs were feeding

me all sorts of records to check
out James Brown tower power

earth when a fire Sly and the
Family Stone blood sweat and

tears shot day early Whitney
Houston you know all the like

the you know, Luther Vandross,
Rose, anything jazz r&b, soul,

Aretha Franklin? Gosh, Anejo
King Curtis,

I got my reads a shirt on baby.

Bam. There you go. Yeah. Nice. I
love it. You know, I grew up on

all of that stuff. And I forget
the question now.

But oh, yeah. Who is your jazz?
Oh, yeah. Now. So,

you know, I was just more and
more getting into jazz,

especially my one uncle, who
went to Eastman as a piano

player. And, you know, he makes
his living as a as a pianist.

Oh, wow. So he would, he would
come home from LA and have this

pile of CDs like for me to check
out. And it would be a lot of it

would be a lot of pretty
hardcore, you know, straight

ahead jazz stuff. That you know,
at the time, I would never have

heard of, you know, a lot of old
Herbie stuff old miles records.

Gosh, all sorts of stuff. I
mean, you know, stuff with Elvin

Jones on it. Art Blakey, I mean,
just on and on and on, you know,

so that was how I started
getting into and just kind of,

it was sort of bending my ear in
that direction. To start hearing

straight ahead, jazz and just
getting used to that sound, you

know, which was a different,
completely different style

playing, obviously. And then you
go to go to music school, and

you want to get into the Jazz
Ensemble and the big band and

you want to you know, and you're
playing with your friends and

you're planning and combos and
booking gigs at the local cafes

and stuff, like all the stuff
all you just learning tunes, and

you know, playing stuff out of
the real book, and you know,

you're just, you're just
learning, learning, learning all

the while and, and eventually, I
heard Bill Stewart, the drummer

Bill Stewart play match, on a
bill Shar lap record. And it was

it was just a moment of like,
oh, my, that's how I want to

sound like, again, super clean,
like his jazz playing is some of

the cleanest you know, and the
way he executes his ideas and

he's so musical and his phrasing
and the way he'll he'll take a

motif and he'll like, expand it
and turn it upside down and play

it backwards and invert it and
Oh, my I just I just connected

with his playing on such a level
and then just, you know, just

the sound of his drums. So clean
and crisp, the sound of his ride

cymbal and like the feel that he
got on his ride cymbal, when you

know he'd be playing ride and
not even playing the hi hat and

to enforce just the right thing.
Second ng deck, you know, it was

just very open, very modern and
contemporary. I just fell in

love with Bill store. And I just
had to learn how to play like

him and I went down the rabbit
hole with him. And I like how

you

own the fact that you're just
like, look, I'm an all around

musician. I'm an all around
drummer. I'm also I'm a jazz

drummer like you will just when
I moved here in 97, the Tommy

wells guy was a soul, he said
Don't say the word jazz. Yeah.

I've had conversations with
other musicians in Nashville

about that one quite recently.
Actually,

I like how you just own it.
You're like, look at I do this,

and I do that.

Well, and I think that if you do
things authentically that it

won't count against you, you
know, maybe some people from the

outside looking in, don't agree
or don't just don't know. Or

they maybe they just kind of,
you know, write you off.

Hopefully not. No, yeah. I hope.
I hope not, you know, but like

it or not, it's part of who I am
as a musician. And I love that

music. And I don't want it to
die. And I think there's a

healthy jazz community here in
Nashville. I mean, I'll say

this. When I when I decided to
move to Nashville. I didn't

think I'd ever played another
jazz gig again.

I mean, I let some of it atrophy
a little bit. I think that the

culture of having Rudy's jazz
room has really helped the

scene.

Absolutely. That is a goldmine
of it place, please, if you come

to Nashville, go to Rudy's jazz
room, and you

got to go to Rudy's. And then
the other place, I say that

everyone has you got to go to
Robert's western world because

they the 1950s. country with the
pearl snaps and the whole thing.

Yeah,

I agree on both levels. Yeah.
You know, well, you know, little

did I know in Nashville, there's
a healthy jazz scene there. But

I did not expect that when I
moved here. And I mean, I moved

here sight unseen. I mean, I
just came here and I was like,

I'm moving to Nashville. I've
never been there. I don't know

anybody there hardly at all. I'm
just gonna go there. Because

somebody told me that I would do
well, there

was that Christie mana and Bill
Warner was Yeah. Now Bill. Now

for those that aren't in the
know. Like Christy's award

winning songwriter and her
husband Bill. I've been done a

million sessions for Bill
probably until he met you. But

he was like, Hey, you gotta you
gotta. You got to check this kid

out. He's doing a great job with
this tribute show we're doing I

keep telling him to move to
town. And I'm glad you did it

been? Yeah,

yeah. It was a big step. You
know, and I mean, because I was

pretty well established in
Vegas. And, you know, but I just

wasn't happy there anymore. And
you know, and it made sense for

my family as well. My son was
born at that point, he was

pretty much ready to go to
kindergarten in the schools in

Vegas. I don't

think so Barry was saying and
Larry is saying they're a little

rough. Yeah. So

you know, that was a big part of
it as well. So it just made

sense for all three of us,
really, my wife and my son and

I, for me, you know, career
wise, I had sort of hit the

glass ceiling. I had already had
my own show for a year, I was

subbing in on any number of
shows on any given week, up and

down the strip. I had my own
jazz trio. I had my own rock

band that was like a cover band.
We were playing the lounges. I

was doing tribute shows I was I
was just all over. I mean, I was

my head was spinning. I mean, I
had three kits at any property

at any, you know, I remember
one,

that's a bonafide business. You
are a small business owner

entrepreneur, and it was
working. But man,

yes, I was burning out is what
was really happening. Yeah, that

can happen. Because Because I
found there to be a lot of sort

of mediocrity in the
musicianship. There in Vegas,

there's a lot of like, attitude
about, like, just do the bare

minimum so that we don't get
fired. Kind of a thing. Yeah.

And I don't like that music is
more to me than that I have to

have it has to be special for
me. And so, you know, it was

really kind of rubbed me the
wrong way, in a lot of ways. And

I just, you know, again, looking
down the line, 1015 years. I'm

like, What's, what else is here?
For me? We're all where am I

going to be in 10 years?
Probably going to be doing the

same thing I'm doing right now.
And I want more than that. Yeah,

that's

that was my Dallas. Yeah,
laundry. I was like, I think

industry you have to go where
there's more stuff happening

where there's a bigger pond with
bigger fish swimming in that

pond. Yeah. Yeah. And so and
that's how you keep learning to

I mean, oh my gosh, the leaps
and bounds that I've grown since

you know, I moved here. Oh, my
gosh, you know, just just

learning the Nashville Number
System, which I did that like

the first week I moved to
Nashville, knowing full well

that this is going to happen one
day, I'm gonna be you know, I'll

be on a session and somebody's
gonna hand me a chart and I'm

gonna go What the heck is this?
You know, I didn't want that.

Hey, it's

glad you checked it out in
advance. I did not I learned on

the go

scary. Oh, my gosh, I would have
been pooping my pants. I mean,

yeah. But you know, I learned
it. And you know, I realized, I

mean, I said to myself, like,
where has this been my whole

life. I could have used this In
all the years that I've been

playing in my career, why don't
they teach this in the music

schools?

So Jim Riley says songs ready
made easy. He's like everyone in

the world should be using the
system.

They should be teaching this at
every music school, at least at

least in the drumset world and,
you know, rhythm section world.

Because I remember looking at,
you know, making old charts, and

it's like, you know, Count 16
bars, and what's the Count 16

bars on a gig? I don't, you
know, makes no sense to me. And

you're not thinking in a musical
way when you're counting to 16?

You

know, because like, well, you
know, I do I do like drum phrase

charts in the sense that if
they're detailed enough, because

most likely, if it's a 16 bar
phrase, you're gonna have to

break it up into eight and
eight, because maybe the kick

drum pattern will change, or
maybe something, a voice will

change your

transcription. That's one thing,
you know, I'm just talking about

like, sketch, you know, skeleton
charts where you're just like,

you don't even know the song.
And you're like, Well, I know,

the bridge is eight bars, okay.
You know, that kind of thing,

where you just kind of like
throwing music together for

some, you know, show that you're
playing tomorrow night, you

know, and there's 45 Songs to
Learn, you know? Yeah. With the

number system, it's just, we
just what makes way more sense.

And I just remember thinking
like, wow, this really would

have been helpful to know, like,
all those years ago. Yeah. So it

is, it is incredibly efficient.
And it does make what we do in

Nashville, and helps that
efficiency, because, you know,

we are cranking out songs. Yeah.
Yeah. You know? Yeah,

that's right. And I mean, just,
you know, in the different bands

and ensembles that I'm playing
with right now. I mean, I still

I'm writing I wrote a chart last
night, you know, yeah.

No, oh, he's writing a chart.
Hey, tell us about the Mannheim

steamroller thing, because is
it? I think that you do that

seasonally. That's your Trans
Siberian. Right. But a little

bit about the history of
Mannheim, I think it's chip

Davis. Right. Davis is still
alive. Yes. And he's got

multiple versions of the band.
Right? Well, there's

okay. Yes. So there's that. So
traditionally, there are two

bands that go out a red band and
a green band, and they go out

simultaneously to tour one takes
the East Coast, sort of east of

the Mississippi and the other
one goes on the West Coast and

kind of hits the Rockies and
whatnot. And they swap every few

years. So you're gonna you know,
depending on what you're you're

up to your itinerary changes,
but and then in addition to

those two bands, there is
another production where they

play I think last year, they
played two weekends in Orlando

at Disney with like a symphonic
whole. Symphony symphony. I

don't know how many piece maybe.
So but and he conducts that

nice. His you know, he doesn't
go out in the road anymore. But

he's the creator of the entire
thing. He he wrote all the

arrangements, or at least co
wrote the arrangements. Yeah,

he's done really well with that.
And it's been a huge success for

him.

The most the most famous song
being parallel to bills. I

guess. So. Yeah. And it's a big
drum feature. Yeah,

gang, gang, gang, go, go go.
Yeah,

that's the big closing number in
the show. A lot of fun to play.

So what's the group consist of?
Is it like contemporary

ensemble, bass, drums guitar
band?

The drumset chair. It's mainly
drum set, but I'm also playing

multiple other percussion
instruments. I play a lot of

glockenspiel. So orchestra bells
toy piano, wow. Various other

percussion like triangle and
suspended symbols, stuff like

that. There's a hammer dulcimer
part that I play beautiful man.

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild.
It's pretty all over the place

and just depending on which
tunes that they put in the

setlist if they don't, that will
change from year to year. And so

that so that's my chair. And
then next to me, there is a

percussionist, who plays timpani
and all sorts of Bell parts and

mallet parts, hand drums and
shakers and doodads tambourines,

and she also plays recorder. So
all the recorder parts are

played by Roxanne they're right
next to me to my right. The band

has a six piece band, there's a
pianist like a piano one he

needs playing a real piano and
the other keyboard player he's

on the stage right and he plays
the harpsichord and various

other synth patches. And then
there is a violinist in the

band, and she's the concert
master. And then addition to

her, there's one more Is the
bass player but he also kind of

switches on and off between bass
and guitar and Lutz and

different, different stringed
instruments. Yeah, it's a really

sort of eclectic, pretty unique
musical situation for all of us

for all the different chairs.
And what's the, in addition to

that they they contract locally,
the orchestra. So they have a

string section and plus an oboe
player on stage, right. And then

on my side stage left, there's
two brass players a trumpet and

a French horn. So they kind of
rounds out the whole band.

That's

great. And then how do you guys
what is your schedule, like in

the holiday months? And how do
you guys travel? Is it bus or

flight?

It's bus. You know, they're
based in Omaha. So we'll, we'll

fly to Omaha for a couple of
days do rehearsals in their

facility there. And then we'll
fly out to wherever the tour

starts and then join the bus.
And then you're on the bus for

the next two months, because
it's about Yeah, it's about the

seven week tour. And it's it's a
grueling schedule. I mean, we

were playing, you know, seven,
eight shows a week kind of thing

there.

Do you miss Thanksgiving and
Christmas? Well, yeah,

you're away from home for those.
Yeah. Now we had. We had

Thanksgiving and Christmas day
off. And I think we had

Christmas Eve off too. So yeah,
you're you know, that's that can

be challenging with a family
especially. Last year wasn't so

bad because we were in
Huntsville for Christmas. So

family just drove down. And we
stayed in the hotel together.

But yeah, we you know,
Thanksgiving, we have a big, you

know, they throw us a big dinner
and it's all you know, all the

production people

as the least they can do. Okay,
well, that's cool. And then and

then now with that same kind of
skill set the reading and the

stylistic interpretation. You're
doing some stuff with the

National Symphony, right?

Yeah, yeah. So got kind of
hooked up with the Pops

conductor of the National
Symphony and Rico. Lopez. Janya

is, I hope I'm saying that
right. Yeah. He's wonderful. And

ever since meeting him, we had a
nice conversation just about

different, you know, gigs that I
was doing, and my background and

stuff. And, you know, Monday
came around, and I had an email

from the symphony about, hey, do
you want to play this show? And

I was like, wow, that easy.
That's incredible. Well, it is

and I'm so grateful for that
work. I mean, it is so

incredible to play at the
Shermer horn and with the whole

Nashville Symphony and to just
write acoustics Yeah, yeah, the

acoustics and just be part of
like the, the ensemble I mean,

it just hearing the, the, you
know, the orchestra, I'm right

on stage with them and, you
know, playing these great pieces

and meeting everyone in the
orchestra and, you know, meeting

percussion section Sandbach goes
back there, he's Yeah,

I love Sam. Yeah, it's Scott.
That's what's named Scott. Yes,

yes.

I don't know. I forget his last
name. But the hell we're both

playing. We

both got to take our gingko
Belle Bo.

I know. Scott. He's not there
every time but what is it? Scott

quarry? Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

Hello, sorry, Scott. Haven't
seen in a while, buddy. But

they're going back to like the
90s. I met all these guys, you

know? Oh,

yeah. Yeah. So it's such a good
time. I mean, I bring my kid in

there. And I get to choose like
which drum kit I want to use for

the show. And, you know, they
have all these nice mics that

they're using on the kid. Oh,
man. I love just geeking out

with everybody in there. It's
just a great time. I played a

whole I don't know how many
productions I've played with

them. Now. They're all
different. Each one is

different. Sometimes there's a
huge percussion section I played

this was one show that was
commissioned. Gosh, I'm trying

to remember the name of it now.
Shoot, but there was all these

like Haitian drummers, and all
these like Latin rhythms. And it

was combined with like a sort of
a jazz show there. I was playing

like some swing stuff in the
show, like, oh, man, it was It

was wild. What's the

schedule when you do a
production with a symphony?

It's,

I mean, it just depends on what,
what the what they need. I mean,

I've done you know, shows where
it's just like rehearsal in the

afternoon show at night. That's
it, you're done. Or else I've

done other shows where it's
like, a whole series of

rehearsals and then you know, a
series of shows after that.

It's, you know, they're never
they never run too long. You

know, usually, a show will last
like three performances or so

like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday
kind of thing.

Does that go into your

AFM pension? Yes. That's all
union. Yeah. Beautiful

that Symfon because I talked to
Neil Grover I was telling Neil

Grover about my pension because
my pension is based on recording

sessions that I do that get
airplay. Right. Is pension was

based on every live performance
he did with the Boston Symphony

for 40 years.

There you go. Yeah.

You know, I mean, it's, that's
where being a symphonic musician

really pays off.

Oh, yeah. I mean, those guys who
are in the orchestra if you're

the principal timpanist or, you
know, I mean, yeah, you're

working. You're making money and
you're doing well. Yeah. I mean,

I don't know. I don't know what
the numbers are. But I mean, I

can only imagine, you know,
it's, you know, I mean, they

have their seasonal it's not
like they they're not playing

all year long. You know, they
have they're on season and they

have an offseason. I think
they're off during the most of

the summer, and then they go
back on in the fall again, and

then through Christmas. So but
yeah, what a great gig, you

know, if you can land a gig like
that, you know, I mean, for me,

I'm just contracted as a sideman
with them. So when it when they

need a drumset player, who, you
know, they can count on for

time, or playing styles or
whatever and read the part and

stuff. Then they call me and I
know I'm not the only one

either. There's other guys that
they call on town, too. So it's

not like I'm well

God rest his soul. Bob meter was
one of them. I believe he was a

stylish guy. I don't know how
long list is, but I'm gonna try

to get on that thing way down
the list. I just want to get on

a list. That sounds sexy.
Because what I what I'm getting

from our conversation is that
there is a lot of underbelly

opportunities that no one would
normally think of that you're in

the mix with. There is a lot of
work out there. These corporate

parties, the jazz brunches, the
symphony, these tribute shows

you got your own band. Yeah,

you have to be versatile. I
mean, a gig like playing with

the symphony. It's like, you got
to follow the conductor, man,

like you got to play soft. You
know, when they asked you to

play soft, and I mean, socked?
You know, you think you're

playing soft, no play like way
softer.

You have to judge it based on
the dirty looks you're getting

from the violin section. Oh,

that's always I mean, forget. I
mean, like, Yeah, I think they

even you're not even set up yet.
And you're getting the dirty

looks like thanks a lot. Ya
know, I try to win them over,

you know, I try to be you know,
be super friendly with them.

And, you know, and hopefully my
playing wins them over by the

end of the show, or whatever,
because I want them to like me,

you know, it's like, I'm trying
to be a musical drummer, you

know, is playing music on these
drums? You know, I

don't have chocolate, they'll
pass out snow. That's what my

grandfather would do. He would
have had lilies little he always

had these little Jordan almonds
in his coat somewhere. And he

would triple these. You know,

I needed to do that. Jordan,
almonds. Let's

bring him back. I didn't know if
they make them anymore. candy

coated almonds. Right. Yeah. All
right. Well, I think it's great.

And then as far as your home
tracking, are you on air gigs

and sound better.com to get the
one or

both of those? You know, years
ago, I was getting some traction

on air gigs. And then it sort
of, I guess maybe COVID just

killed? I don't know, just it
tapered off one day, one day,

and it never came back and sound
better. I got on there. I don't

know. Maybe like two years ago,
I forget what it was. But, man,

I haven't had one. It's been
like, like, a ghost town for me.

I'm trying to figure out like,
how, how do I break through the

noise on those sites?

I don't I just don't like that.
You have to put your pricing on

there. Because a lot of people
are like that. Yeah, like I'm

shopping for a great drummer for
under $100 A song you know, I

mean, it's a race to the

bottom in a lot of ways, you
know, and I don't I mean, yeah,

I'm not charging $100 I'm
charging more than that.

I guess, as you should, as you
should. And this is what I tell

teachers and people that are
doing home recording sessions.

You have an advanced degree.
You've been playing drums since

the 70s 80s. Well,

a professionally since when did
you start? 90 ish, like Yeah,

okay, so

we're talking decades here.
Yeah. I don't want to anger any

misuses that are listening right
now. We all need you. We love

you. We understand that you
understand how the human body

works and trigger points and
different are we doing Swedish?

Are we doing athletic? What do
we I get it, but I don't know

how long you go to school? Six
months, maybe a year? Yeah, you

make a they make $80 an hour?
It's $1 a minute plus usually a

$20. Tip. Yeah. So then why are
drummers charging $25 an hour

for a drum lesson or $100 a
track? No, you're way off and

you're bringing the whole thing
way down?

Yes, the bar is going way too
low, to

charge at least $1 a minute for
your skill. said that his highly

developed you, you invested in
yourself, you paid for higher

education, your gear bill, all
the practice all the

sacrificing, come on, and

just you know, I'm here I'm
engineering everything myself,

you know? It's not you know, I
mean you have to charge so much.

Yeah, it's it's a it's a job
man. And I mean, it's a fun job

don't get me you know I wouldn't
do it if it wasn't fun. You

know,

there's harder ways to make
money here. Sure.

But but there's a huge skill set
involved and yeah, it's Yeah,

people's need to stop chasing
each other to the bottom of the

scale there. Yeah. So hopefully,
I don't know, let's Yeah, let's

spread the

word charge what you charge and
proudly own it. Because you

know, you know that deep down
your soul you're worth that

amount? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you know,
and you work as hard as you and

I have developed these skills
now, not only drumset wise, but

you know, the miking and the,
you know, and then all the posts

stuff. I mean, you know, all

the file management, well,
you're a brave man, I bring in

my drum tech, and we do it
together, and I got a stroke him

some money. So I lose a bit some
profit, but

the workflow, I've thought about
doing that, the joy

and the work, the workflow is
more pleasant, because I have to

deal with the file management.
Right

in there are some clients that I
work with, who want me to

actually, like, mix the drums,
or the song or the record, it's

like, you know, jeez, man, like,
I'm not, you know, I didn't go

to school for that, you know,
I'm just self taught. I yeah, I

watch a lot of YouTube. You
know,

that's when I would say, you got
this, I'm sending you the raw

performance, you know,

I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it
can be challenging. And I've had

to learn that the hard way. I've
had to learn to ask that.

Because, you know, I would send
files in there that were raw and

mixed. And then the song would
come out. And I'd be like, why

the drum sound raw? Like, you
just you didn't you didn't mix

anything. You do that? Hello?
Yeah. Yeah. So you learn the

hard way. That and then you go
okay, so you want me to mix

this, then? You know, I'll
probably charge you a little bit

more to do that. Which is valid.
Yeah. Yeah. Totally valid, you

know, but, but I find, I find
enjoyment in it, because I get

better and better at it as each
time I do it. You know, and you

find new ways to, to mix and to
totally solve problems and

whatnot. Yeah,

I love it. I love it. I mean, at
the end of the day, we're making

a difference to people's lives.
We're helping bring their art to

life. It's it's a really, it's a
grand calling it really is. And

oh, it's great.

I mean, you know, I've always
just wanted to be a session guy

like, you know, I mean, I love
playing live Be careful

what you wish for because you
know

sometimes yeah, I've talked to
guys in town who are like known

as session guys and sometimes
they're kind of dark sometimes

and saying things like I don't
actually listen to the music

that I record and stuff and it
makes me wonder like, really?

Yeah, like

well, you know, Johnny Depp says
he's never watched a daily event

or se in any of his films, which
I cannot even how would you not

just by accident, see? Sleepy
Hollow or Pirates of the

Caribbean? Come on,

right? Yeah, I don't know. I
mean, I'm just trying to cobble

a living together.

You're doing it man. You're
doing it you're you know, you're

in you know, beautiful Tennessee
here. You got a studio in your

house. You got the you know, bed
people downstairs, you know, I

mean, you're doing the thing,
man. So now you're a veteran of

three major music cities, you've
received a lot of advice. Now

that you're an eight year
veteran of Nashville, somebody's

moving to Nashville. What would
you tell them?

Well, if they're, I mean, if
they're just getting started

with their career, if they're
young, you know, maybe right out

of school or whatever. Just have
a system for learning new music

is a big one. Because you're
just gonna get thrown all the

songs all at once. And you're
gonna be expected to know it

onstage. Yeah. And, you know,
just be as versatile as you can.

Don't be like super, you know,
like, I pick Yeah, like listen

to listen to multiple styles and
don't if you're a country guy,

don't just listen to country,
check out some r&b stuff, check

out pop or, you know, maybe a
jazz record or you know, or like

an acoustic record of some sort
or, you know, just find other

things to dig in on to sort of
sponge into your playing. Yes.

You know, and again, all always
being authentic, always having

coming from an authenticity
point of view, because people

can smell a fake a mile away,
even, you know, even, you know,

other people that other
listeners who aren't musicians,

you know, they can smell a fake.
And so, learn your styles, you

know, learn you know, if you're
a guitar player learn your learn

how to get tones and copy, you
know, the tone that's from the

record or whatever it is, you
know. I, you know, I'm a big fan

of learning to read music
because I It helps me it helps

me on shows, and I don't have to
memorize things. I can just read

it. And I can play it like, like
I memorized it is everybody in

that room, including the artist.
I've played entire shows where

they never knew you're reading,
but you, the artists never

right. He was like, Thanks for
memorizing all my stuff. And I

read the whole darn thing. I
counted it off. I led the whole

thing. He never I fooled him
completely.

Dude, I do the same thing. I
will write that stuff out.

Reading music is the literally
the cornerstone of my

educational philosophy. To me, I
consider it even more important

than rudiments. Because if you
can play a couple of great

beats, and you get a good sound
on your instrument, what's going

to propel your career is not the
ability to do a five stroke roll

Believe me, you're going to need
it. But your ability to learn

lots of material quickly.

Yeah, yeah, that's in Nashville.
That's big time the name of the

game. And and I'll say this,
like being comfortable with

playing something that you don't
know, like you get called to do

on Broadway and you get somebody
requests a song and you're the

only guy in the band that
doesn't know the song. Well, you

better get used to that feeling
because that's going to happen,

and you better know how to fake
it. And

hopefully the bass player like
look at straight A's medium rock

four on the floor, watch me for
the stops know what to ask for

all that stuff. How does it
start? How does it end?

Right? All that stuff? Yes,
exactly. That's a good skill

set.

I'm just so happy. You're here,
man. And we just you know, we we

didn't get to spend enough time
together as like, you know, on

that tour together. But yeah,
you know, I want to come see

Mount Juliet, you

play man, I just I was really,
you know, you are the ultimate

like stadium rock drummer. I
love watching. You're so

entertaining to watch, to play
and to listen to obviously. I

mean, you got such a killer
groove. But like, just visually,

you're just a lot of fun to
watch. And I take inspiration

from that.

Oh, thank you. It means so much
to me, man. I just a big fan of

everybody check out Brian
zak.com and that's CZ. ach.com.

He's a member of the Polish
American club, you know, pink

cup. And I always tell everybody
Hey, you got to learn how to

train me and you got to learn
the two step pink app and Cappy.

But no, there's there's actually
a video of you recite reading a

Big Bang track and it sounds
incredibly good.

Thanks, man. Thanks. Yeah,
that's a skill I worked on long

and hard. And you know, it's all
through school. And, you know,

and beyond even, you know, on
the cruise ships, and you'd get

thrown these these shows, and,
you know, these charts that are

sometimes they're a mess, and
sometimes they're immaculate,

but you got to read that stuff.
Like you own it, you know? Yeah,

I worked on that really, really
hard. I loved playing in the big

band. It's equally as satisfying
is playing in a kick ass rock

band, because a great big band
that swings together that moves

as an organism and trusts their
drummer. Oh, it's a great one.

Yeah. You know, Ellington,
Basie, and then you got into the

the modern the nestico stuff in
the mincer stuff. And the Gordon

Goodwin big fat wall. That's a
band who

Oh, I love it. I love all of
that stuff. You know, really,

really great. Hey, we're gonna
close out with the Fave Five.

What's your favorite color?

Usually Green.

Green. I don't get a lot of
greens, man.

Yeah, I like I like purple too.
But green, green and purple.

What about your favorite food
favorite dish?

Oh, gosh. It's gotta be Italian.
Probably. I love going to Italy.

Yeah, like I like a good
carbonara. Very

nice. And yeah, well, you know,
as far as a drink, would you

pair that with a red? What would
you do? What's your favorite?

Tip classico

all the way? Oh, like Italian
table one. Yeah, and I'm not

Italian one bit but I just love
Italian.

I'm not Polish but I love
perogies and I my ex wife was

Polish and so we go up to
Michigan and like eat the heck

out of those parolees. Yeah,

yeah, that stuff Well, same
thing with the with the Italian.

Dude.

What is this is kind of a tough
one. But what is your favorite

song in the sense that this
thing comes on the radio and you

are going to crank that thing
up, man?

Gotta be Phil Collins something
Phil Collins probably probably

in the air tonight. Why not
write breathless Gibberish

Gibberish Gibberish or maybe
yeah, or maybe like, easy lover.

Dude with Philip Bailey. Yeah,
well Got a drum sound what a

drum part.

Yes. just crank it well, massive

application of the six stroke
roll.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. And then your
favorite movie? Oh, gosh.

Maybe I'm lost in translation.

Classic Coppola. Yeah. So
awkward.

Yes. There's, you know, we're
gonna come full circle now

because, you know, talking about
going to Tokyo and Japan. watch

that film. And you see, and I
remember watching that film

after being in Tokyo. And I was
like, that's how I felt. The way

Bill Murray's walking around and
just like, yeah, just like,

gawking, you know, it's just
strange. Strange.

That may December romance is
also kind of highlighted. Yeah,

you know, and you just end up
hating RBCs character. You're

like, What is wrong with you?
Your wife is awesome. I know. I

know. It's crazy. What's the
best way for people to get in

touch you contact with your
brand? zack.com Yeah,

probably or just on social you
know, at Brian Zach on Instagram

or Facebook. I mean, I you know,
I'm on all the time easy to find

just my name. Yep.

That's what I say. I'm a sitting
duck on the Google inator man.

Well, I'm gonna come out and
visit with you man and the mount

Juliet's. Let's do it. Yeah.
And, man, congratulations on

your Nashville journey. You're
just taking it by storm. Great,

great to have you on here. And
hey, to all the listeners.

Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to
subscribe, share rate and review

that helps everybody find the
show. And until next time, we're

gonna be here. We'll see you
next time. Brian. Thanks, man.

Take care. This has been the
rich Redmond show. Subscribe

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