The Rich Redmond Show

Coming to you from crash studios
in Music City, USA, Nashville.

This is the rich Redman show.

What's your iPhone, your wash
your clock on your wall of your

old fashion? It's correct. It's
time for another exciting

episode of the rich Redman show.
Yeah, where we talk about all

things like music, motivation,
success. These are the things

that drive us, inspire us,
inform us. Usually I have a co

host co producer, Jim McCarthy,
Jim McCarthy voice overs.com.

Jim is doing some really
incredibly important thing

today. He would always never
choose to miss our guests. But

this is long time overdue. And
we have such history. So I get

today's guest all to myself, and
we're gonna get into it. Hailing

from Minneapolis, Minnesota,
funky town, but calling LA home

since 2000. Today's guest is a
drummer, speaker and educator.

He is also the world's first
polyvagal informed professional

drummer, the first polyvagal
informed professional drummer on

the planet. Our friend, Adam
gust, what's up my friend? Hey,

Reg, rad man, good to see you
again. What a history we have

man. We went to the University
of North Texas at the same time,

I was there 93 to 90 Ba what
were was that your exact exact

same? Yeah. And you were getting
your undergraduate degree right?

Yeah, yeah, I never I man I was
so in love with Keith Carlock, I

was like, man, he left I'm gonna
leave. Yeah, I never graduated.

He never graduated. It was the
Berkeley model.

Is that it? Yeah, I just wanted
to practice all day and play

gigs every night and when that
became an option, I really just

wanted to become the best
drummer. I could and I saw that

as the best way to do that. So
well dude, you put in the work

and a lot of us had practice
rooms. We had practice room

North practice himself. I got
back to campus. I don't know if

I told you but

it had been 28 years but last
March or May I got the campus,

same brown brick. Not much has
changed. Of course the city of

Denton has changed but that
music business Oh, you get the

you get the willies. You know,
thinking about oh, I got

barriers coming up. I got to
play this excerpt on the

xylophone. I got to play this
excerpt on the vibraphone. I got

to go in and I got to play this,
this jazz piece for Ed sofa and

he's just going to be
deconstructing me and fighting

me. And it was just got it so
but at least 20 years later, I

was like, Oh, I'm an
accomplished professional. I

actually wrote a couple of
books. I'm actually gonna be

talking about my book today. You
don't have to worry about any of

this stuff. But it was cool man
to

the corrals. I remember the
marimba corrals were nice. They

were really musical. Yes. I
mean, it was all about stuff.

Yeah, we had to like did you
ever study timpani mallets and

snare drum with Ron Fink? Yeah,
so Ron Fink wrote one of my

method books. I'll never
remember it. Never forget it.

Rich. You are like a great
sportsmen always hunting and

fishing for the notes.

Get it but I wish I wish I had a
little splash symbol.

So anyways, you left so but you
were you were in the lab and

program and then you I believe
you were in. Were you in the

zebras. The Fusion AI did that.
Yeah, and bad. I've done all of

your audience knows. But I
remember you having to be the

sub drummer or the practice
drummer for the Zappa percussion

ensemble, which was extremely
challenging music. You're in the

one o'clock lab band, you're
also doing top 40 backbeat blues

gigs. I mean, you could have
done whatever you want it and so

I know you definitely kind of
facilitated towards being the,

you know, World's Best Country
drummer. But yeah, I mean, I

just find your audience to know,
man, when I knew you. You were

doing it all. Oh, thank you,
man. Well, they, you know, it's

the same thing. My my model was
like you were kind of modeling

yourself after Keith. And of
course, I knew I had a practice

room next to Keith and I used to
subform in Dallas, brass and

electric major shoes to fill.
But I was like, Man, this kid is

going to go to New York City or
Los Angeles is going to change

the world. Of course he did. My
career model was just a guy like

the, you know, Gregg Bissonette,
which is like prepare to play

everything and see where the
world takes you in for some

reason. By just asking a simple
question in 1997, I asked to a

guy named Dan Nelson who's
playing a saxophone and a group

called Soul tsunami is one of
those, you know, Thursday,

Friday, Saturday, working strip
ball, strip mall, top 40 funk

bands. It's like I need a I want
a regional gig, a national gig

or an international gig. I got
to get out of Dallas. And he

said, man, there's this chick
named Tricia, your word that's

looking for a drummer and then
that was it.

It's led me towards Nashville.

And your your, your path was you
got as overeducated as humanly

possible. You got a lot of
experience playing in Dallas,

Dallas has a healthy, vibrant
music scene. You and I played in

the same band. I played in a
band called random access, and

you did as well. Yeah, that's
true. Luke Adams, who's in LA he

was in between us and yeah, I
remember I started doing that.

And Keith Carlock and Wojo went
out on the road, Keith moved to

New York, and suddenly there was
more session work at the time.

And yeah, yeah. Oh, that was
actually an ideal time to be a

professional drummer. Like a
good Right Place Right Time.

Yeah, we'll put some money away
and move to LA in 2000. I'm so

glad that you got to put some
money away because I remember

those gigs. They paid like 80
bucks, and then maybe the

private parties paid like 175 or
so. And of course, this was 25

years ago. But still, that
doesn't go very far. You know?

My rent was stupidly cheap at
the time I remember. Yep. So you

ended up moving to the LA area
kind of with with Luke Adams and

Blair cinta and

who else correct PPE ILO. Yeah,
all those guys. Everybody went

on to greatness playing with
Atlantis Morissette or P yarn or

Frankie Valli. And so So you
ended up moving to LA. And I

remember there was one gig that
I believe you and Craig shared

it was called the Red Elvis's
was tell us about that gig but

was your first gig in Los
Angeles. It was the first

touring job. So I was doing the
home studio recording and

playing I remember I was doing a
lot of like salsa cumbia and

East LA which was great fun to
watch Latinos dance, you know at

that time in my life. No, yeah.
But yeah, they were touring

constantly and Yeah, crazy
story. Right Elvis's they moved

to LA from Russia. And they
started playing the Third Street

Promenade on the street and Star
Search executive producer som

and had him on Star Search. And
then they won and they took the

money and bought a van and
started touring and bringing

this Russian surf rock music to
the world. And yeah, I tour

toured with him for eight years
US Europe and Russia crazy times

and Russia. Yeah, it was it was
fun. I have never been to

Russia. I don't know if that's
top of the list, but had to be

fun, especially at the time,
right? Yeah, I played Live Aid

for 40,000 people in Red Square
televised around the world. That

was a trip. Wow, that was
probably the biggest gig I've

ever played. So yeah, coming
home after that and seeing the

bills stacked up when I got home
it was really kind of saw both

ends of the music life you know.

I got arrived to play this huge
gig in Red Square. I remember

like opening the door and seeing
the stack of bills like oh,

there's goes all my money.

So that's a roller coaster this
life we have. Well, I'm also

very curious about this time
where you I remember you know,

Blair has been on the show. I
need to get Luke Adams on the

show. But he was talking about
you know, playing smooth jazz

gigs. And you were playing this
kumbaya music in East LA now

when you say like,

East LA are you talking about
like this, like, dangerous parts

of Los Angeles where you're like
drumset and a baseball bat?

Yeah, yeah, I was dodging
bullets on a loadout one night I

remember. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, the
hop in City of Industry. That

was a fateful night. But um,
yeah, that was, I mean, I just

looked around for gigs and there
was this band that was playing

that circuit doing weddings and
casuals and club dates and it

was great, great band, and then
like the band of brothers would

sit in and after their gigs and
got to meet a lot of people and

ended up playing a lot of salsa
kumbaya like wouldn't have

expected me that but yeah, it
was fun

to read all of a sudden came
around and really loved that and

they kept paying me more every
year stuck with it for eight

years and finally quit that and
yeah, had some fateful stuff

happened half Yeah, that's
right. That's right. That's

right. Now I remember talking to
you one time because I would get

to Los Angeles like once a year
so without Dean I remember one

time we were fortunate enough to
like we sold out the House of

Blues on Sunset Of course, that
is now a gigantic

apartment complex, our business
building a lot of glass it's so

sad that we lost it in another
venue but I remember meeting you

one night for a cocktail there
and I think you were with the

right Elvis at the time and we
were chatting and we're you know

we're in the back room and the
sun had set and we were looking

out at the City of Los Angeles
was so sexy having a drink and

we were talking about you are
about to film a drum DVD with

this

But in 2010 2011, or 2012, in my
murky my memory? Yeah, that was

2010. I was putting together a
curriculum, I was in the middle

of shooting it and editing it.
And yeah, then I had this

accident on a gig and that
really kind of halted that whole

process. I remember that. Okay,
so so that was right before that

happened now. Now, let me ask
you this accident that you speak

of, I don't know if you would
like to discuss it. But it seems

to be the gateway the the hinge.

That is that set up all this
incredible research and study

and this personal journey that
you've been on? So is there

something you want to talk
about? Or? Yeah, I mean, it was

really the doorway to what has
opened up these dreams that I

never knew I had. So yeah, and
there's just amazing things that

I'm really excited about that
have nothing to do with drumming

that I'm more excited about that
then like whatever gig I might

get now, so Right. Yeah, I mean,
it's really Yeah, like you said

that doorway. So yeah, I'm open
to talking about it. Yeah. Well,

I mean, I kind of assumed that
we would spend a large portion

of this talking about your,

about this event that occurred
and leading for you to become

now a speaker and an educator.
And you're one of the now this

is so popular with drummers. I
actually during I think during

COVID, we got together at
Granville there in West

Hollywood, we had a little bit
of a bite and a chat. And we

talked about head x's. And
during COVID, I wrote a TEDx and

I just gotta get off my butt and
do it in person. But you

presented one at the University
of Mississippi called The

Science of groove. This was your
first presentation about the

vagus nerve, which is our
nervous system superhighway. And

I've watched it several times.
And it's incredible. So tell us

about the event and or the TED
Talk and this research in this

new system of drumming that
you're coming up with somatic

drumming and the idea of the
dystonia and the brain body

system that we have. And this
concept of biometrics, I'm just

gonna let you have the floor for
a bit because you're so so well

spoken on this. And if no one is
watching this on the YouTubes,

or listening to this, I'll just
say that Adam is handsome as

ever. He's wearing a pinstripe
suit. And he looked, hey, you

know, you look much better with
short hair. You look great. Oh,

well, thanks. Yeah, I guess.
Yeah, I've been reading a lot of

research papers. And it's funny,
I was starting to feel more like

a doctor than a drummer these
days. So maybe the hair suits me

this way. But yeah, that area of
the wellness has really been

transforming lately, largely
because of some technological

advances in research. And
especially in the 90s, there was

a huge shift in how we were able
to get imaging of our nervous

system and how it works, how
neural transmissions from the

brain to the body work instead
of just snapshots, were able to

actually watch it like movies.
And there are a lot of

preconceptions we've had that
are completely dismissed. And

now things that we used to think
were woowoo and new agey, we

realize now Whoa, okay, no,
we've had it completely

backwards for hundreds of years.
So, yeah, and I've kind of got

into this through this accident
that I had, I had a lot of

tension problems that I now
understood. I understand to have

been symptoms of musicians focal
dystonia, a neurological

disorder that only happens. And
during certain tasks, which for

musicians, it's when you play
music. So yeah, it can be really

frustrating because you're
perfectly fine when you're not

at the drums and then when you
sit down then this tension

happens which is a really kind
of Yeah, as we would look at it,

you see a drummer playing with
tension, it kind of can't help

but think, you know, the word
amateurish comes to mind, you

see some kid got all tensed up
playing like, oh, yeah, iron

grip on the stick, and like you
make some judgments about that

as a professional. And so I
started seeing that in myself

and started feeling amateurish.
And yeah, it was, it was

challenging. So there was a six
year period where this this

tension would manifest in your
body when you would sit down to

play. And you were you were
facing extreme frustration

because you have been, you know,
practicing and perfecting your

craft, you know, all these years
and you have a beautiful stroke

and touch and tone you achieve
on the instrument. So to have

something that's taking you off
course that you don't have

control over had to be
incredibly frustrating. Yeah, it

just kept compiling. Felt like
it kept getting worse, as you

know, I would hope it would get
better over a six year period.

And it just didn't didn't
actually it was interesting. A

mutual friend of ours, Mark
Schulman. I remember him telling

me like, you know, I remember
talking to him like man, I can't

believe it took me six years to
arrive at this solution and Mark

is just like, dude, that six
years I mean,

That is money. I mean, if you
would figure out the solution to

this the next day, it would have
been like, Oh, I've had this

problem got a solution I didn't.
And I'm moving on. And he's

like, man, that grit, you know,
that's what connects people with

what happened to you? Is that
frustration? And he's like, You

should really relish those six
years, because that's what gives

you the fire now that you have
and well, that is great, great

insights from our friend, Mark.
Yeah, things are easy. That's

really not really there isn't
really a story, their

struggle in the grind that
happened between the problem and

the solution.

And so

I'll, I'll just do the talking
for you. Because I know it could

be somewhat emotional, and you
were just, you just about

celebrated the 10 year
anniversary of this thing

happening. But

2010, you're playing a gig in
Palm Springs, you're having a

great time, you're getting ready
to set up, you don't notice

there's a playground glass
window, you walk through it,

there's glass, there's blood,
it's a disaster, the doctor says

you got cast on both your hands,
no drums for a year. And then

this tension problems start to
manifest for about six years.

And it seemed like that in 2016,
there was a turning point when

you took a gig on a cruise ship,
and you felt like you wanted to

learn the language of your
nervous system. Sure, that's a

lie.

But I've never heard somebody
speak it back to me like that.

Thank you. Yeah.

You know what I know, it can be
a very, you know,

tumultuous,

and traumatic thing. But this is
what led to all this research

that you're doing in this whole
beautiful chapter of your life

where you are a scientifically
informed drummer. And now as

speaker, you're a speaker that
happens to play the drums, and

you're a drummer that happens to
be able to effectively

communicate on a very specific
subject. So I applaud you for

setting yourself up for your
next 20 years, because this is a

youth oriented business. And
it's always something very smart

to have another 2345 irons in
the fire.

And you're doing that yeah,
what's

cheers Yeah, what's coming up
for me the next three years,

I've never been more excited
about anything in my life. It's

really a dream come true. Some
opportunities that are happening

starting, can you tell us? Can
you tell us right now? Yeah,

yeah, well, I'll set it up a
little bit there. So there's

this misconception I've had
about something we all

understand to be mental
toughness. And so yeah, I mean,

you've mentioned motivation
earlier. And we all think, okay,

you have to be mentally tough to
be able to accomplish something

to be able to perform at a high
level. And there was something

that I didn't quite understand
about that, that I'm working on

now is like, what is supporting
our mental toughness, and its

emotional toughness? I mean,
there, I think there's a

threshold. It's hard to talk
about sometimes, but there is a

threshold that we can become
emotionally overwhelmed,

depending on the level of the
circumstance. Absolutely. Yeah.

And so our emotional toughness
needs to supersede the level of

challenge of our circumstances.
And so it's one thing to think

of, yeah, you know, practicing
hard and trying to get to the

top of the mountain. But what
happens when that challenge

inevitably, inevitably confronts
us? Do we have the emotional

toughness to overcome that? And
so that I don't hear that being

spoken enough about? And that's
really what I want to approach

that because I think real
resilience is 50% looking at the

person at the top of the
mountain, and 50%, looking at

the person at the bottom of the
ocean, how did that person pull

themselves up? You know,
they're, they're both using the

tools of their nervous system to
achieve greatness, and to bounce

back from extreme adversity. And
so I love Tim Ferriss take, you

know, what, what if he did the
exact opposite? You know, like,

okay, we're looking at these
great achievers, you know, what

if we looked at the exact
opposite of great achievers, and

that would be people who are
suffering the deepest traumas,

you know, what are the tools
that those people are being

held, you know, facilitated what
how are they pulling themselves

up and so that's really the
research that I want to study

which is why I'm super excited
to have been accepted into the

somatic experiencing trauma
healing practitioner, three

years certification and the
biggest hero in my life, Betsy

politan, an unbelievable
embodiment worker is going to be

my contact for my case studies
and individual sessions and Muay

Thai just can't wait. I can't
wait not a master's degree or a

doctorate. This is something
outside of the university

system, but it's a a training
program. That's going to take

three years. Yeah, yeah. So
there are eight different one

week trainings in person and
then in between your work with

clients and

And then while you're working
with the clients, you take those

that case study work and work
individually with a mentor. And

to think that I'll get to work
individually with Betsy is two

weeks. I mean, five years ago,
when I came to learn about her

work, I was like, I want to be
the Betsy politan of drumming.

And she was at Boston University
at the time, but she recently

moved to LA. And so now the
timing is worked out for me to

study with her, and I can't
wait, that is incredible. And

see. So for me, I am I am over
educated in the sense that I did

seven, at least seven years of
higher education, I don't have a

desire to go back at all. But
you bounced that year three or

four, and you lived your life
for 25 years, and now you're

incredibly excited about
something and you're jumping

into the deep end of the pool?
And so and then will you make a

little money in the process? Or
is this you're gonna have to

make your money elsewhere. And
then this is a labor of love for

three years. So for the first
year, you are a student, and

then for the second two years,
you're in training. And so the

typical thing is you would do
half the hourly, you would as a

completed practitioner, a
somatic experiencing

practitioner, they tend to make
150 to 200 a session. And so I

would you know, the first year
I've, it's going to be mostly

about building my program, which
is going to be a focus on sports

psychology. So I really want to
look at especially Gabrielle

Wolff, he's a sports
psychologist, and there's

embodied cognition in sports
psychology, MIT has a program,

and the big piece of it is
rehabilitation, you know, these

star athletes that there's
inevitably some sort of injury

that happens and how that's the
big piece? How do they

rehabilitate. And so using that
new research from the sports

medicine realm, and bringing it
into a trauma healing paradigm,

if that's going to be kind of
that's why I'd really, really

like this kind of metaphor, the
top of the mountain and the

bottom of the ocean, like those
same tools you use to get, you

know, pull yourself up and also
get to the top. It's the same

nervous system, and it's the
same tools of resilience. And so

that's what I want to be
studying. All right, so what

now I have heard you say that
resilience is essentially

healing in real time. Yeah, but
what is this embodiment that you

speak up? What is that? Exactly?
embodiment is mind body

connection. Gotcha. And so for
hundreds of years, in

particular, since Rene Descartes
said, I think, therefore I am,

there's been this privileging of
the brain over the body. And

even to the extent that
neuroscience neuro means nerve

science is the study of the
science of nerves, you would

think it'd be the whole body,
but neuroscience is the brain.

And so it's like, all this focus
has been on the brain, and the

body has just been considered
this kind of meat wagon that

hauls the brain around. And now
we're understanding how much

information starts in the body.
And that triggers cognition. So

the feeling happens in the body
first, and then the brain

reacts. And that's really been
tipping the paradigm. Wow. So

you I also have heard you
mentioned that trauma, I love

acronyms you can have it as an
acronym was essentially teaching

resilience and understanding
mindful awareness. So you are.

So again, trauma is teaching
resilience and understanding

mindful awareness. So this is
going to be essentially the crux

of your work. You're in the
right city for the for the

athlete thing, because let's
face it, drummers are athletes.

And, you know, you're going to
have all the paperwork to back

up the fact that yeah, oh my
god, I'm going to be able to

work with all those any of the
athletes in these famous sports

teams in Los Angeles, and they
probably are going to love the

fact you're like,

my guy that works with me is
actually a kick ass drama. Have

you seen this guy shred on the
drums? I mean, you're like a

killer like fusion chops
drummer. I mean, you can do the

hotel Cafe scene and backup
singer songwriters and play next

to nothing, but you can play
this the drops match, you know,

so I think that's going to be
like very exciting for your

clients in the future. Thanks.
Yeah, actually, you mentioned

polyvagal informed drumming
there is this research of the

vagus nerve that has been really
changing the outlook of a lot of

healing modalities and semi the
vagus nerve, it stems up from

all of our internal organs and
goes up to our brain and 80% of

it is sensory information. So
when we talk about mental

toughness, like 20% is coming
from the brain down to our body

through this incredibly
intricate and highly kind of

influential nervous system and
80 percents coming up. And so

really, we need to tune in to
what that information is. And we

used to think that it was

All nonsense for the longest
time because right the brain is

the center of the universe, but
we're seeing how easily this

brain is swayed by this thing
called an effect. So an effect

is pure biological information
before it becomes emotion and

feeling. And so you can you can
understand the effect by through

biometrics and Neurofeedback
brainwaves, heart rate

variability, blood oxygen skin
galvanic response, how our pores

respond to stress. And if you
remember anything from middle

school science class, there's
the biology of the sympathetic

nervous system and the
parasympathetic nervous system

fight or flight, rest and
digest. And we used to think

rest and digest was just this
thing that was kind of kept us

calm, and then fight or flight
is really the activation of

emotion. But that's not true.
There are these two sides to the

parasympathetic nervous system.
That one is really very deeply

embedded in healing, health,
growth and restoration. And

that's what the vagus nerve
does. Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. Because the

am I right in saying that
there's something to fight fight

or flight with us as these human
animals

that, like it almost speaks to
inform of like, people that are

positive, or negative. As a
general rule, I feel like people

almost have to work so hard to
be positive because our first

setting is the fight or flight.
We're as cavemen we would be

like, woolly mammoth, Saber
toothed Tiger run, and then 24

hours a day, we're on high alert
to not end up being a meal.

Right. So that's kind of
ingrained in our DNA.

Yeah, it is. But I would suggest
that the Neanderthal or more

ancient humans, they had better
access to their parasympathetic

nervous the non fight or flight
attributes that we all have been

endowed with, I believe they
could sink into that much easier

than we can now in modern world
why I think I think media tends

to because we had no idea the
Mandela had no idea what was

happening outside of his field
of vision. And so and it did

wasn't worried about his bank
account. It wasn't worried about

anything. He wasn't about
comparison, comparing himself to

some other person on Instagram.
Well, yeah, they're doing a Jew

huge recording session today,
Capitol Records. I'm just

practicing Peridots.

Remember, I remember playing
Bruce's steak house with my

cumbia band. And I was like, I
wonder what Keith Carlock is

doing right now and looked up
his itinerary. He's like, Oh,

he's at Royal Festival Hall.

Playing the Royal Albert Hall.
Right? Yeah, ya know, just like,

Okay, I'm gonna play my Bruce
and steakhouse gig.

Says, Keith know, what an
influence he was on you. I've

talked to him a few times. He's
He's a bit aloof of a guy. I

mean, he's a monster drummer.
biggest, greatest respect for

him ever. But I'm sure he has
people to tell him what an

influence he has all the time.
So he is hard to get ahold of He

lives up.

Fit 20 minutes from me, and we
never run into each other. You

know? It's crazy. Yeah. You
know, but Okay, so you feel like

early man we had was more tapped
into that.

You know, we never discussed
this. But you know, this, the

trauma. And there's something
Yeah, trauma, we talked about

the acronym.

You know, when our band was in
Vegas, and we ran for our lives

at that festival.

There's really nothing but
gratitude in our organization,

because there's 60 People that
are completely healthy, that

were seemingly unaffected by
that event, yet, there's 58

People that are dead, there's
546 people that are injured,

their lives are changed forever.
They're in wheelchairs, they're

disabled, horrible. It's a
horrible day in human history.

We just ran. And I'm sure that
there is some sort of lasting

effects of PTSD. And I'm a very
positive person, but there's

probably things that I'm
carrying around with me that I

don't notice. Is that a
possibility? Like for the guys,

for me, and the guys in my band
that we're like, we're fine. You

know what I mean? There's this,
they're like, maybe you should

talk to, I went and talk to
somebody, I had two or three

sessions where I talked to
somebody, I figured, like, this

is smart to do while it's fresh,
go,

go talk to somebody. And you
know, maybe there's a couple of

guys in my band that didn't
because we as men are like, be

tough, man. You know what I
mean? But maybe that's not the

way the best way to handle
things. Yeah, well, I mean,

psychotherapy talk therapy has
shown to be effective in healing

folks. And I would say that's,
you've read the effected like,

what does it mean to be
affected? Well, in Western

culture, that would be some
Clearly observable sign. And so

Well, okay, well let's let's
talk about this aspect, what is

an effect? What's going on in
our body? That's unobservable.

So there would have been a more
traditional view of it. Well, if

you can observe it, why bother?
You know, if it's not something

that's immediately, you know, is
some something like truth is

purely cerebral and like,
unconscious. It's like mucky

muck. You know, that's kind of
this, what Rene Descartes would

say. And that's been the
paradigm that's been follow that

our education systems politics,
everything kind of follows that.

But this this thing of an effect
this go, that's what's going on

on our body, there's a, there's
kind of a metaphor I've been

teasing out that I think
drummers would get, especially

recording drummers, because so
okay, I have some drums here, I

do online tracks, I have, like
12 microphones, there's all

these signals coming from these
microphones, and they're going

through my interface and preamps
and going into Pro Tools. Right?

Okay. Well, that's so that's
signal flow. And so what's going

on in the signal, you know,
there's also some noise, there's

a level of noise in every
signal, there's the noise floor,

there's the signal to noise
ratio. And so you might not hear

the noise, when you first bring
it up up in Pro Tools. But when

you slap a compressor on it, you
know, something that lowers the

highs and brings up the lows.
Oh, when you bring up those

lows, suddenly like, Whoa, there
is this noise? And there's like

a hum, yeah, yeah. And it's like
that wasn't there before. And so

in an experienced engineer would
say, Oh, well, my compressors

broken, the compressor is the
issue. And an experienced

engineer will be like, Oh, okay,
we found the noise floor that

was in the signal. And so an
effect is kind of like this

noise floor, this thing that is
coming up in our sensory

information. And we didn't, we
weren't quite aware of it until

this external compressor kind of
caused some compression in our

lives. And suddenly this, this
tension came up, and then we're,

then we were aware of it. And so
we think externally, we think

the compressor, the external
circumstance did this. But it

was really in us all along.
Because it's kind of a sad state

of affairs, we're only
consciously aware of point

000 4% Of all the sensory
information in our body, that's

all we can actually consciously
be aware of one 2500, wait,

we're only we're only conscious
of that small amount of

information, informational
awareness in our environment, or

you're saying in our body, both.
So anything that's external,

anything that six senses that
we're taking in from our

externally and then all of the
internal information, all of the

reflexes, all the kind of wisdom
in our stomach, and our heart

and our lungs, all this is
coming up to the brainstem. And

then it gets routed into the
midbrain, the limbic brain. And

then these brain, Pete, these
parts of the brain decide what

the cortex the conscious brain
should be aware of. And so this

noise floor is always there. But
it oh, we only become aware of

it, when it gets triggered by a
compression by some sort of

stress in our environment. And
so when we dig into an effect,

when we really start kind of
sussing out what I'd like to

think of the SEO, like, you have
2500 search, you know, kind of

things come up in a search, and
you can only see the top one,

like your SEO better be badass.
And so I like to return the SEO

is sensory evaluation
organization, you kind of have

to reorganize, like what do I
really need to know about these

2500 pieces of sensory
information, which is most vital

to me. And so exploring that is
a deep exploration that I'm just

beginning to scratch the surface
on and I started noticing things

and other people now that I
understand neurology better and

all these kind of natural
reflexes. And when you start

noticing Unnatural Reflexes in
people, you know, that that's

some emotion that is imprinted
in their nervous system. I mean,

like someone being snappy or
grouchy, or

just having rage.

Yeah, of functional expression
of stress, I would say. So I

mean, stress happens to
everybody. And so we're having a

response that will elevate are
kind of our I guess, our, our

bodies bank account, kind of
like how we're allocating the

money, the resources of our
effect, like, are we using our

money well, or do we have these
subscriptions that are kind of

taxing us that aren't doing as
well. And so I started noticing

things while you're kind of
burning, this energy that isn't

functional for you, it's not
serving you. And there's these

and that's really kind of the
essence of somatic experiencing.

You start noticing these
unnatural reflex patterns, these

on conscious reactions, and you
make the make the pay of the

client aware of them. And are is
the client able to desist like

is it because we should only be
doing what we intend, right and

so forth.

Doing something unintentional,
that's taxing our biological

resources, our money, let's say
our aspect is our body's money.

And so how are you using our
bodies money should be, you

know, you should be using it
wisely. And when you see

somebody spending it unwisely, I
want to help that person. And

I'm starting to become more
tuned in to how to be a witness

like that. Awesome. And now, so
you've been studying all this?

This is probably you're on what
year four or five of this deep

research 17. So yeah, about
seven years it was it was pretty

clumsy. At first, a lot of it
was just an embodiment podcast,

and just realizing there was
this entire world of

practitioners out there helping
people to kind of use less of

their bodies money in a fashion
inefficiently. And I was like,

wow, that's valuable counseling
people to not waste their body's

resources. And so then I've
started learning polyvagal

theory and somatic experiencing.
And finally, I got certified in

polyvagal theory a few years
ago, I've been mentoring with

the polyvagal Institute. And it
was mostly with sports folk. So

the first cohort I was in it was
people working with athletes in

the world cup. And so this fight
or flight is interesting,

because right before you get to
fight or flight is where you

want to be as an athlete. So
once you go into fight or

flight, and you're activating
the sympathetic nervous system,

you are burning your fuel
inefficiently. Because it's

meant to be a short burn, like
we were meant to get into fight.

And that fight should be over in
minutes. But if like for the

duration of a entire event, if
you're stuck there, by the time

you get to the fourth quarter,
you're you know that you're

depleted more than you need to
and so these trainers I was

working with, they help athletes
to understand, okay, what am I

burning? And efficiently? How do
I tuck in just below I get it to

activate the sympathetic nervous
system. And so how can I still

be at peak performance and not
burn my resources excessively?

And so then, so that's kind of
the performance angle of that,

that sports psychology embodied
cognition. And the trauma angle

is How can I not burn my
resources and efficiently when

I'm trying to heal? How can I
focus my energy on resilience

and kind of coming back from
adversity? Yeah. So

and so it's all through the eyes
of a drummer, which is

incredible. You saw something
that was first a you were

looking for practical solutions
to your particular problem, you

fell in love with the subject
and along the way, you say, Oh,

my God, there's so many
commonalities between this and

drumming, and you're like, Oh,
my God, I can be one of the you

know, it's, there's not a lot of
guys in your lane. So you are

going to be the torchbearer of
something very, very special.

Let me ask you this, now that
you're learning more about

psychology, biology,

all all that stuff, the
scientific mind, when you sit

down to play your drums, and you
just want to land into a?

Are you overthinking things or
scientifically? Or is it

assisting your pursuit as a
musician, a musician that plays

the drums, that's my favorite
thing about it is that I love

playing so much more, because it
feels better. Because I've

really understand these ways to
find what my effect levels are,

how is my body functioning away
from the drums. And so I started

to have a range of motion as
important for this the

relationship between breath and
heart rate, there's a really

crucial piece like I mean, if
you take your finger and put it

against your jugular, you can
feel your heartbeat. And so I'd

like try to tap your heels on
the ground, along with your

heartbeat. And this is x, Taro
ception, external perception,

your feeling your heartbeat. And
the big piece is to be able to

pull your fingers away and still
feel your heartbeat, and tap

your heels. So that's
interoception as being being

able to feel your heartbeat
inside you, which is really the

cue for your emotional state.
And once you can do that, and

you can say, Wow, okay, I'm
checking out my heart rate right

now, which probably like one in
about 30 people roughly can have

that level of interoception. Or
they can just focus attention to

their heart and know the pulse
and be able to use that as their

metronome. And so that's
something I've been working on

with breathwork and so when I
bring that to the drums now I

realize oh, there are kind of
these seven default things that

happen physiologically in my
body that are a cue that I'm

kind of going into fight or
flight and so I just like I'm

playing something simple. Okay,
where's my heel? Where's my

shoulder and my shoulders up?
Are they forward? What's my

heart rate was face is a heat
the brain face connection is

very intense. It's hard to
broadcasting emotional state the

vagus nerve that goes along
well, expressions of the vagus

nerve go along our eyes and
along our mouth fairing

laryngeal fare.

NGL and then ear is actually
interesting. It's the vestibular

cochlear nerve, its balance and
hearing are in the same channel.

And so what we hear affects our
balance. And so yeah, and so a

loud noise is going to bring our
heels up. And so anytime we get

past a certain dynamic level
that might trigger a kind of

orienting reflex, we need to be
as particularly sure Okay, where

are my heels? How what's the
separation between how I'm using

my thigh muscle and my calf
muscle, my lower abdominals and

well sphincter, it's a very
important

sphincter for the man it is such
a jump, man, if you can try to

compress all the air out of your
lungs with your lower abdominal

and still make sure that your
pelvic floor is the more polite

term for it. But if that's
relaxed, and you can

differentiate tension in these
kind of muscle groups that are

close to each other, that is
really important in somatic

work. Wow. So what will be the
definition of the of the

polyvagal theory and somatic
drumming?

Oh, the definition of it. Yeah.

augmenting your resources,
really maximizing how you use

your body and finding and
finding cues that are

indications that you're in a
physiological state that's not

appropriate for your conditions.
I mean, there's sometimes there

is going to be a time where you
need to activate. And you know,

you need to run or you need to
fight but like the stage fright

is a big one for a lot of us
like I think an imposter

syndrome. There's like this
trigger from the body that goes

into fight or flight. And by the
time it goes through our

brainstem or a particular
activation system, the midbrain,

it gets to the cortex, the
conscious expression of a

feeling of fight or flight is
that I don't belong where I am.

And the brain often translates
as I don't belong here. I'm

inferior. It's an inferiority
complex. Did you? Did you ever

struggle with that and during
your journey in Los Angeles?

Yeah, I mean, I always thought
of myself as the low rent Keith

Carlock, and there's a lot of
truth to that. I mean, I would

have taken any of his scraps,
right? Like on a purely

objective level, it kind of
suited me I mean, I didn't think

I'd ever be is I mean, that guy,
man. Oh, my God, dude. Like, you

know, musicians like that come
along, like once every 20 years

or so, like, you know what I
mean? Like, it's like, you can't

really compare. Like when I had
to go sub for Keith with the

Dallas, brass and electric, it's
like, well, look at I'm gonna, I

can only do me, because there's
only one me and there's only one

him. But that that embracing
that. Is, comes with maturity.

Yeah. And presents like they're
really how to deal and dive into

what is our physiological
effect, what's happening

biologically is to be present.
And what's your present, you

don't care about anything that's
happening except the here and

now this particular millisecond
from one to the next. And then

at that point, it doesn't matter
who is doing what external to

being present in your task at
hand. And so that's what's made

me love drumming so much more
now is because I feel like

there's this really connection
with the present. And that can

get muddled. I know, some folks
say, Oh, I'm bad at meditating,

like meditating isn't clearing
your mind, it's hyper focusing

on the activity of your body.
Like, if you don't have a

breath, practice, if you're not
trying to, like flex different

parts of your muscles without
flexing others that it's really

challenging. Like trying to,
I've noticed like, Okay, your

heel, and your calf and your
thigh and your pelvic floor,

like try to like cycle through
those muscles and do it slowly

and then speed it up. And once
you can start really

differentiating them, then when
you sit at the drums, you start

noticing, oh, I just triggered
my calf muscle that didn't

benefit me at all. That's an
indication that I'm overusing my

my money. My bio money. Yeah.
That you mentioned the, one of

the expressions of the vagus
nerve would be in the face. So

someone like me that is known to
have the worst drumming calm

faces.

These are these are the worst
drumming faces. I'm jealous of

you because you don't make crazy
faces when you play.

I'm getting better at it. It's
all about whether it's

intentional or habitual, silent
mine is not intentional. I would

rather not do it. But it's just
drum face it's it's like I'm

feeling the the subdivisions and
the quarter note in the pocket

or whatever that thing is. The
Muse is on my shoulders and I'm

going to that special place and
so I'm not really controlling

what I'm doing in my face. It's
just happening and no and I get

a lot of shit for it. John no
one gives John Mayer shit. Have

you seen the faces he's makes?
Is it just because he's the

front guy just because he plays
the route to tu tu tu tu tu tu

To guitar, I mean, so what's the
deal with drum face? What is?

Well is if it's intentional, if
you are commanding the use of

the muscles in your face, then
it's good. And if you're not,

it's it's, it's worth exploring.
Yeah. And so I explore it with

my Oh, tape. So this is sleepers
tape. And so I would take a

piece of it. And I would peel it
off. And I put one piece here,

because this is where the nerve
for the I mean, the kind of

controls are on the eyes. That's
where the Botox people are going

to take your money right up
there. Yeah, well wait, if you'd

if you do this practice that you
don't need to, because the tape

will help you out. So the tape,
the tape will clue you into when

you're activating these muscles
involuntarily. And so then the

and then you take another piece
of it, and you put it over your

mouth. And so if your mouth and
you're able to maintain

composure, and not move these
muscles in your face, then you

are in intention. So that's I
practice with tape on my face.

And anything that I do that
triggers an involuntary

activation of these muscles,
then I go back, and I practice

it until I can remove that. And
just make sure that what I'm

doing is intentional, because
it's because our emotional

overwhelm resides in our tension
habits. I mean, our nervous

system is a recording device, it
records what happens to us

throughout our lives. And if
something happens, it's

overwhelming. It's in our
nervous system. And just because

we're not conscious of it
doesn't mean it's not there. And

so we can kind of, it's kind of
like ghost chasing, like we have

these ghosts that are in our
nervous system, and you kind of

have to figure out the right
filter to find out the

paranormal activity. And so I
kind of look at myself as ghost

chasing, you know, these
residual kind of memories in my

physiology. And after years of
doing it with myself, I'm now

able to see it in my clients.
And that's what I'm really

excited about the program with
somatic experiencing is that's

the whole thing to see people's
ghosts, how they live in their

bodies. Fantastic, man, I'm so
excited about your, your future.

And I'm sure this is a no
brainer. And it'll be pretty

easy to do since you have
literally no competition in the

space. And you're such an
effective communicator and you

got such a great smile.

You're gonna do the percussive
Arts Society pay sick, right?

Please tell me I applied we'll
see it's still fringe. I like

people it hasn't filtered into
mainstream media like what

exactly the New Mind Body
sciences, there's still some

residual idea that it's Frou
Frou New Age? Well, yes, it

wouldn't be for the big room 500
You know, where the 2000 people

sit because it's just not there.
As as because it's scientific.

It's not like make man Genie,
I'm going to play every note.

You know what I mean? But it's
going to be one of the smaller

rooms that you'll pack. And it
will be so interesting. And it

will be one of the top talks of
the of the convention. I

guarantee it. We just need to
make it happen. I know people,

we can make this make this thing
happen. But I think that would

be really, really widely
received. And now tell me about

this. You have another acronym
you and I live with these

acronyms. I literally

love him or you hate him. But
you got one called Grace

grounding relaxation, awareness,
centering and energy. Tell us

about grace. Yeah, then the next
level of it is synergy. It's

kind of one that I've added a
bit. So the graces and I have to

admit it comes from Esalen
Institute, I've done a bunch of

trainings there, I really
admired their program and saw a

lot of use out of it. And so it
really kind of stacks up kind of

like the defaults of monkey,
what's what's let's first just

get to a place where we're even
comfortably knowing that we're

not going to face plant like,
before we run out of air, we

could kill ourselves by falling
backwards and cracking our head

on the cement, right. So our
nervous systems, a number one

job is do not face plant and
die. And so the very first thing

that's going to give composure
to our nervous system is just

feet on the floor, balls of the
feet heels flat, and having kind

of this for sitting as we are,
it would be this tripod between

our kind of well, things are
muscle and our feet. And so it's

this balance there and making
them first like kind of shift

the pelvis forward and backward
and find out where neutral is

they're kind of shift the
shoulders forward and backward

and find out where neutral is
there. And then bring the head

forward and backward and find
out where neutral is there. And

so neutral is this balanced
point where we're expending as

little energy as possible just
to be relaxed. So that's that's

basic grounding. And then
there's an orienting reflex,

which is just okay, there's no
arrows flying in my head right

now. You know, just kind of
looking around the room making

sure that I'm not going to die
in the next five minutes. But

what I can see in my visual
environment, it's kind of just

the nature of

grounding. And so there's a fact
EMDR Eye Movement

Desensitization reprocessing,
which is works with the

orientation reflex, and really
is showing how important it is

just to be aware of what's in
our immediate environment. So

grounding and relaxation is like
kind of, like I've mentioned

before really differentiating
our understanding of how we use

different muscles. And if you
stack that on top of balance,

then it gets quickly into
martial arts, I do a lot of work

with both staff, Japanese
fighting staff, which really

find out how your joints work,
how the right side compares with

left side and balance. Awareness
is the relay race relationship

between breath and heart,
inhale, the heart rate goes up,

exhale, the heart rate goes down
that man that's years of study.

And centering is that it kind of
get deeper and okay, I'm doing

this on my left, can I do it
equally on my right, in martial

arts, this would be called flow,
being able to go from right to

left equally well, that you are
much better off being able to do

simple things equally on both
sides, and to be able to do 100

Things only on one side. And
that has everything to do with

brain lateralization, how we use
the corpus callosum. And then

obviously, drumming, the
applications are endless. So

leading with the eighth notes on
the across high hat or then

playing with the eighth notes
with the left hand lead, like a

sloppy rock beat like that was
like that simple. Yeah, I would

say just both hands playing
together. So both hands playing

together, and being able to do
that, and then moving and both

the hi hat, and then just being
able to bring each hand equally

over to the snare, yes, like
just being able to do that. And

I've had some clients, they
they're very uncomfortable doing

this. And suddenly like this
starts flamming, they start

adding eighth notes in the rear
left foot, and then all of a

sudden, this Unison between the
three limbs starts flapping, and

that sets up evidence of some
dysregulation in the nervous

system. To do that, and let me
ask you this, when you say

clients, are you talking about

people that have been playing
the drums that are having

trouble doing that, or you use
the drum set for non drummers as

a form of okay, yeah, so both
and workshops, I do very basic

coordination patterns. There's
some systems and polyvagal

theory that apply very well to
coordination patterns between

top to bottom left to right, and
then cross coordination right

hand, left foot, left hand,
right foot. And so and then for

drum said, clients there, there
are some that just want a nice,

they saw me play a lick, they
want to learn it, you know, not

do that. But the ones I'm really
interested in are ones who are

experiencing injury, emotional
overwhelm aging, losing your

identity as a drummer, that's a
huge nervous system trigger

flame. So you're dealing with
some clients come in to

professional drummers for 40
years there. They're facing

ageism. Yeah, well, ageism does,
well, aging, I would say, you

know, they're getting older, and
they can't do things that they

used to do.

And they see that, okay, on the
next few years, it's just gonna

get worse and worse. And there's
very many of them do this

breathing is an issue, there's
so much ignorance about

breathing. And I've had some
people say, Oh, I take deep

breaths, I'm fine. It's like,
man, we all need to understand

that if we stopped breathing, we
lose oxygen to our brain. And if

we hyperventilate, we're losing
oxygen to our brain. So good.

There's such ignorance about
this. So I mean, if we're, if we

breathe too much, and we pass
out, it's not because we over

oxygenated our brain, it's
because we under oxygenated it.

And that's not very intuitive.
And so we really need to

understand as a culture, what
the bore effect is, please look

it up B O HR, it's how our blood
transmits oxygen to our tissues.

And there's a state where if
there's not enough oxygen in our

blood at all, there's we don't
get oxygen to our body. And if

there's too much oxygen in the
blood, then the pH doesn't

release oxygen into our tissues.
And so there's this very fine

gradient that we all need to
learn about in our cell. That's

a huge part of an effect is
really understanding how what

level of oxygen do we need
because roughly 80% of us over

breathe, and it's very
detrimental to us. It's a lot of

loss of fingertip sensitivity
happens without over breathing.

There's a breath by James Nestor
is brilliant book very well

written, dives deeply into this
subject. I would recommend it to

everybody. It's kind of the
baseline of understanding what

an effect is because oxygen is
such an important what's the

James nesters book? Oh, called
Breath. Breath. Now there's a

couple other pivotal

homes that were mentioned on
your website. Books that you

have pictures of in your blog.
Oh, yeah, there are Wow, there

are a lot Yeah, Betsy,
politicians books are amazing.

Yeah, Hugh manual and the actor
secret. It's a the same tools

that actors use are very
applicable to drummers. Their

Body Keeps the Score

That is a great introduction,
Introduction to somatic healing.

Yeah, that's kind of Cymatics
101. The it's great. And

yeah, I know. Oh, yeah, that's,

yeah, I want to open my eyes.
Yeah, there's stuff. It's funny

because all we're talking about
is sensation, like all of this

work, somatic work aspect. It's
all digging deep into what our

body is telling us. And maybe
like you brought it up, men are

kind of told, Well, no, macho
means not feeling it's being

focused, mind over matter, smash
things with my mind, vice, you

know, and sort of erasing this
connection with feeling when

that's actually creates the
greatest weakness, we can ever

have it or opens us to disease
and lack of creativity. And it's

Yeah, so masculinity is, I don't
know, it gets a little kind of

into this nebulous thing with
wokeness. And I hate that

because I mean, I just want to
get people to feel better. Like

I don't want to go down this
rabbit hole of what politics of

it, I just want my clients to
feel better when they play

drums, but And so but
masculinity is often a barrier

to that. Wow, interesting. This
is all cross pollinating. Now,

it seems like your work is
started it is cross pollinating

with a lot of some of this. Some
of the stuff that Davy Lich

teaches, are you guys in
conversation? Do you guys talk

about this? Because there's, you
know, he's going deep, you're

going deep? Are you getting some
of each other students? Are you

throwing students to each other?
Are you guys gonna do a big

event at the sunset Guitar
Center? Am I crazy, I completely

respect what he does. And he's a
monster drummer. And he is very

much into applying Alexander
technique. And I've met I watch

everything he puts out. And
actually bots, Betsy politan, it

uses a fusion of Alexander
Technique and somatic

experiencing. And so I want to
use more sports psychology, this

idea of climbing the mountain
top and pulling ourselves up

from the bottom of the ocean
being the same tools. And so I

mean, he's already doing that
with Alexander technique. I

mean, I would love to work with
him. We've, I've sent some

emails, we've kind of responded
a little bit, I'm, I'm trying to

get a little further along. His
thing is so well defined. I feel

like I need a little more
definition before.

Hey, man, you're right around
the corner. Tell us about this

TEDx man, you know, it's like
this is on my to do list. I did

not want to do it during COVID,
where it was going to be

virtual. I want to stand on the
red dots. I want to do the

thing. You knocked it out of the
ballpark. It was informative. It

was free flowing, it was well
executed. There was comedy, you

know, you gotta have some
comedic moments to break up the

seriousness. There is practical
application stuff. It had to be

well received. Yes, he did it in
Mississippi. Yeah, it went

really well. Anyone interested
in doing a TEDx? There's the TED

Fellows program that has 16
questions that has you really

suss out your topic. And I think
that it took me two months to

answer those questions. They're,
it's they're all very similar,

but they all make you kind of
tear things apart into different

categories. And so anyone who
that my application is online,

Adam gus.com, forward slash TED
Talk. And so that was actually

the webpage I designed for my
TED application. And I applied,

applied to one place, and I made
it to the final round. And then

I applied to the second place,
and I was selected in the first

round. So I did something right
in my application, and, and it's

all there. And it's preserved
forever and ever and ever

figured I believe it up. Yeah. I
mean, some people, other folks

that have done one, Jojo Mayer,
I think is done one or two. Mike

Johnson has done one, our friend
here

in Nashville, Harry Miry, has
done one. So there has been

about four or five drummers that
have done the done the TED

Talks. And

I would like I'd like to be
next. It's pretty much written,

I hired a coach during COVID.
And we had about six or seven

sessions to write the thing. But
the big thing is the application

process and nailing that
application process. So

I guess that's what I guess
that's on the to do list. Yeah,

make a website for it. Yeah.
Just take those 16 questions

from the Fellows Program and
answer them. And that's like,

pretty much any TED or TEDx
organization is going to only

ask a few of those questions.
And if they see that you went

above and beyond that, they're
going to be Oh, that's, this is

ready to go kind of so literally
build a website that just

exists, you know, just free
flowing for anyone to find, and

then direct those individuals to
that site. Yeah, so in the TEDx

application, just Bansuri take
draw from what you've already

written into the application and
then put the TED

Then the website, the URL that
you composed. And that'll

immediately put you above like,
probably, you'll be in the top

3% already just having done
that. That's incredible.

applicants don't have to do
that, man. This is also so

exciting. I wanted to spend a
lot of time talking about all

this research and where are you
are, you know, with your career?

This is very, it's evolutionary,
you're evolving. But I don't

want to miss out on any fun.
Interesting, heartfelt stories

about your early days in Los
Angeles. Did you park cars? Did

you have day jobs? Did you max
out credit cards and eat ramen

noodle?

Were their takeaways? I mean, I
saw you in like 2016, I believe

not 17, somewhere around there,
playing with Paul valus, which

is his incredible blues band.
And you were killing it. And I

think I got up and play two or
three songs. Hopefully it was

alright. But it was great. It
was a benefit for my acting

coach his wife. And we all ended
up at this crazy little club

right in the heart of Hollywood.
But yeah, am I missing anything?

Are there some takeaways that
you would want to take some kid

that was grown up in Fargo and
he's about to graduate high

school and he wants to move to
LA and be a professional

drummer? What do you tell the
kid? Yeah, there was the best

advice I ever got was your field
starts when you walk in the

door. And that was something I
really did not understand. I

always thought your field was
when you kind of the tune off

and started playing. But the
minute you walk in and look

around the room your feel is
starting and your vibe and

energy. Yeah. And it's I mean,
I'd say essentially, it's funny

now that I remember hearing that
from Joel Taylor. And now I

think about well, that's
everything about effect. You're

broadcasting what unconsciously
what's happening in your body

and people can pick up on that
particular people who have been

out here a long time and they
probably can just resonate and

yeah, a vibe, you can call it
that and our or you can even

call it your biosphere, this
magnetic field that we all put

out that's about 10 feet away
from us. This isn't

controversial. This isn't some
woowoo idea. It's been

researched there. We have a
magnetic field, and we are

broadcasting our physiological
state and other people feel that

whether they're conscious of it
or not. And the more conscious

we are of it, the better off we
are feel. Is that and yeah, so

yeah. So when When did y'all
Taylor tell you that llave Lee

watching Joey Heredia play with
Marco Mendoza.

Yeah, that band was fun to watch

the back way, like, this was
like, 2002 I'd been out here a

while like, man, I've been out
here a few years. You know, I

hadn't had a good session yet. I
hadn't toured. And I think even

he thought I needed to get

he could kind of vibe from me
that I needed. This information

is like, amazing. Yeah, your
field starts when you walk in

the door, silver driving home,
just like Oh, fuck. pretty

profound. Now Jill Taylor,
incredible drummer that can

cover all sorts of styles for
the listeners that don't know. I

started hearing his name in the
Dallas top 40 scene because Dave

Barnett from random access was
pals with Joel Taylor. So Joel I

for the listeners was this cat
that when

what was that game Guitar a
guitar hero he did all the

recreations sound like yeah,
that was songs. So it was

hopefully it was a big paycheck
but I do know is probably just

one time because no one gives
residuals to anyone. But so say

they had to rerecord that Bob Oh
Riley he had to go research and

find out who what the drumset
was, what the make was, what the

sizes were and then transcribe
those performances note for note

and then recreate them. So you
know, you got to be a great

drummer to go from like, Okay,
I'm doing Charlie Watts. I'm

doing Keith Moon I'm doing Phil
Rudd I'm doing and doing a great

job of it and playing

period instruments or modern
instruments made to sound like

period instruments. Yeah, Blair
center would be a great one for

that. Yeah, totally. Because
Blair can get the sound and find

out like what preamp they were
using on the overheads.

Which is really funny because

I love Blair and when I have to
record in LA, I go to his place

and it's so fun because it's a
drummer producing a drummer and

it's just such a great time. But
I am not that guy. I don't want

to obsess about a preamp I just
don't you know what I mean? So

but it does take too. It takes a
lot to make the world go round

different.

So so that's what you would tell
a kid and then what did you have

any day jobs are interesting,
fun story.

He's in the early American movie
classics. I did catering. So

yeah, yeah. So I was the
catering person and it was

always fun. Whoopi Goldberg was
real nice. Laurence Fishburne

was real nice. And there. Lauren
Bacall was a bitch. And

it was interesting to see like,
how much the person who was

being focused on how much their
vibe trickled down to everybody.

Like I mean, when Whoopi did her
thing like everybody was in a

good mood. The day went by like
that. And if it was somebody who

was not fun it just like, Oh,
God, Is it lunch yet? So

American movie classics in the
sense that a classic film would

be shown and then a star would
come in and do the interstitials

like this. This movie came out
and such as and so when you say

catering, you're not talking
about craft services you're

talking about you would bring
the luncheon and I was serving

food for them. Yeah, doing those
intermediary or those

intermittent pieces? Yeah. So
they would film those and for

whatever reason I've got on
those. Yeah, I was doing that

quite a bit. Food was good.
Paid. Okay. flexible hours. Oh,

yeah. You got to I mean, some
people give the live and die by

that craft service table man
when the starving artists days.

You load your pockets up with
that crap server, bro. Where

baby yeah, had a backpack with
Tupperware in it. Yeah. Now he's

outside of the red Elvis's and
just being a freelancer? Am I

missing some of your resume?
Some folks that you've worked

with and the hotel Cafe scene or
recording sessions or little

tours? You did? I did I did I
miss things along the way. I

mean, select tracks I was proud
of. I did like five man,

hundreds of pieces for TV and
film. I mean, they were such a

shotgun blast of tracks. I don't
even know what made it where I

think.

But yeah, Stuart hard. He was
hiring me a lot on the west

side. And so that was always a
regular. I don't know TV and

film music. It's feels good to
be working on that. I'm sure

there are lots of drummers that
would have liked that gig. But I

mean, mostly like I don't know,
I love the gigs. I do. Like I

mean, it's tomorrow or the Roman
Palacios is great crooner Frank

Sinatra style singer and Rodeo
Drive. And then I'm doing this

burlesque show with really great
band high end, dancers and then

leaving town with Laurie Marvin
and she's great to play with.

And so I'm gonna knock people
out here with but I mean, really

eclectic calendar and everyone
I've kind of a prerequisite that

it's a cool gig for me, I don't
have I can't deal with being

treated like a cog. So I mean,
that maybe that has hurt me in

some ways, but in other ways, I
love all the gigs that I do. So

that's nice. So what you're
saying you don't like being

treated like a cog in the wheel?
Well, I mean, you know, the

cattle call auditions. Gotcha.
So you we need a drummer will

take anybody I typically get
hired for what I do. And I and

that means that okay, we're
gonna we're gonna walk in, and

I'm gonna play a way that they
anticipated. And so I it's not

like fulfilling a role. And I
mean, at this, oh, it's jazz,

burlesque blues. I do rock
stuff. And then of course,

online tracks, there's always
something different. And so

yeah, I really enjoy the gigs. I
do. But yeah, I've definitely

been compared to you are
probably most of the drummers

you've had on your podcast. I
don't have a resume. Do you live

in sunny California, Southern
California for all these years

since the year 2000. It's pretty
incredible. And there's been

some hardships and some ups and
downs, but you're a survivor.

You're a thriver and you're a
drummer, that can read play with

a click and play any style. So
you are always going to work you

know, that. We know you know,
we're Mitch our mutual friend

Stuart gene, they're they great
all around drummer was you know,

musicians used to do you do any
of that West Coast? You know,

those those variety bands that
he does? I was in one group that

would do like cocktail hour Leah
Zeger. Man, unbelievable

musician, man, I should call her
we shut down over COVID But she

was one of my favorite people to
work with ever unbelievable

singer, virtuoso violinist
sweetest person in the planet.

We do this French jazz thing.
We'd go in for the kind of

cocktail hour and then split. It
was the coolest gig. So yeah,

yeah, a bunch of stuff. agency
work. Yeah, I do some subbing

for that, too. So yeah, Roman
gets a lot of that stuff. It's

just trio, so it pays really
well for him. So yeah, nice,

man. It's so exciting to be
doing all those things, which

means you have to drive an SUV
because if you're doing all that

schlepping around there, you got
to have some it's right it's you

got to have the SUV.

See, what else did I forget
anything about your national

your your Los Angeles journey.
You're busy man. You did it,

Ernie. Yeah, it's been a roller
coaster. But I'm really excited

that I found something that is
separate from drumming, but not,

you know, something that still I
mean, everything that I'm going

to be working on is with
drummers as clients, and it's

stuff that I'll be using to
benefit myself. I mean, all it's

basically the clinic

application of an effect
regulation. That's kind of what

I'm working on. And the more I
can understand it, and myself,

the more I can bring to my
clients, and the better, more

fun I have playing, it just
feels amazing. When I'm using

just as much effort as necessary
to get what I want out of the

drums, and then to feel like I'm
at that point and be able to

recognize other folks that
aren't there. I'd really want to

help people to find that because
it's such an emotional journey.

It's such a window into people's
souls. And that's why man,

Betsy, Paulette, and I've seen
some workshops with her like her

recognizing a person's personal
story in their movement is mind

blowing. It's like, if I
couldn't even touch what she's

able to do at all. I have no
like, I would be blessed. It is

supernatural, what she's capable
of. I'm so excited. And you're

gonna be working with her for
three years right there. Yeah,

it's so so so cool, man. Listen,
we're going to end up with the

fast. That fast favorite five,
so I'll ask you five questions.

Oh, I usually like to try to
make it fast but it never is.

Favorite color.

Purple.

Purple Auralex and purple
curtain is in your drummer. I

love it. Man. You know I have a
friend. I have a student Sara

car deal. We call her the real
deal. Car car deal. She's in

Connecticut. She loves purple.
She has got purple drum. She got

purple glows. purple hair. I
love it. Favorite food or

favorite dish? Tacos. You've got
to love it. You know it's so

funny. We got taco trucks here
in Nashville, but I don't know

which ones are good. I don't
know if I could trust him. In

LA, you could just eat it any
taco truck. It's gonna be

fantastic. Probably yeah, the
type of meat they use is

important man. If you're ever
Northeast side, you gotta go to

V as tacos. It's the only
Michelin rated tacos in LA. It's

unbelievable. You say like it's
Pasadena area. Yeah, it's an off

Figaro and 52 vi Oh, it's also
in Grand Central Market they're

just expanded Yeah, it's blowing
up their stuff. Okay, you know

where I always ended up you know
cactus Dockery at number one or

number two or three.

And then at home, ma'am, I my
tacos are pretty damn good. I am

check Chicana approved my girl

you've been dating your Chicana
for years. Yeah, seven. Yep. Oh,

nice. Yeah, my boy can make some
tacos according to her. So I

love that. How about your
favorite drink? favorite drink

out there any any drink
whatsoever? I mean, if we want

to be exciting, we can have
alcohol in it, you know? Yeah.

Reverse osmosis water. I
recently got one of Yeah, one of

those super filtration systems
for water and man it's

unbelievable. And then you know
the carbon carbonated I love the

the Aqua Rushaga they gasm is in
what you say in Russia.

Like water with bubbles like
bleh you have I like it. Now

this is difficult for some
people but something that just

keeps rearing its ugly head in
your life. It comes on the

radio. You are gonna crank this
sucker up your favorite song. My

favorite sign anything by John
Mayer body is a wonderland. I

don't know if that first album
of his room for squares. I've

it's so well done perfectly
mixed. I admire the masterful

job that was done from beginning
to end on that album. It is kind

of a guilty pleasure and is a
masterpiece and it's so funny

that I brought up John Mayer
today. Have you ever met near z

the drummer that played on that
record? No. I listened to your

podcast with him. No, he's a
monster. Yeah, his drumming is

flawless on there. You have
Jason Mraz album, I remember

like who is this drummer? It's
like, oh, yeah, right. Hit the

remedy. That remedy stuff. Yeah.
Oh, good. Okay, well, that's

great. You'll meet near He's
nice. And your favorite movie

man favorite movie? Favorite
movie?

Inception. Oh, that's heavy.
Yeah, it's really kind of

explains these layers of
polyvagal theory in a deep way.

And that's why I like it so
much. So yeah, these kind of

tiered this hierarchy of our
emotional responses is very well

represented in sort of these
dream states of the movie. And

so Christopher Nolan is not
messing around. You have got to

pay attention.

Yeah, yeah. I even liked it
better the second time. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's repeated viewing.
That is not a Beavis and

Butthead movie, man. You got it.
You definitely have to pay

attention to that. Adam gus.com
amazing resource you listeners

out there. Be sure to check out
his TEDx talk. You could see it,

I believe on your website, but
of course, YouTube. It's called

The Science of the groove and it
is fantastic, man.

Congratulations on that. Thank
you so much for spending this

time. I love being able to catch
up in a public forum.

I'm gonna be in LA the first
week of March. Maybe we get a

taco I'll text. You know, we'll
do the thing but really

appreciate your time and talent,
man. Oh, thank you for having me

on. I mean, man, the folks
you've had on your podcast are

it is a high bar you said so
yeah, it's an honor to be

included. Man, you're right up
there. Congratulations on going

after your dreams and making
them happen, man. Very, very

cool. And to all the listeners
out there if you love the

podcast, be sure to subscribe,
share rate and review. It really

does help people find the
podcast through all those crazy

algorithms in maybe on the next
episode, we'll have our

producer, longtime friend Jim
McCarthy with Jim McCarthy voice

overs.com. Adam, I'll be seeing
you real soon. Thanks for

joining us, man. Oh, so Yeah,
cheers. Take care. You guys.

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