The Rich Redmond Show

Unknown: For anybody moving down
here, you are starting a

business, whether you like it or
not, which means you have to

have some magnitude of business
acumen, definitely a good sales

approach. That's what I think
made you rich, is that you

understood all that you knew you
were somewhat of a master

salesman. You could back it up.
You had, you know, you didn't

have the clout yet. You only had
the clout coming from Dallas and

what you did, but you certainly
had the education, but you had

biz, you know, you had a
salesmanship to you, you know

what I mean? And that made a big
difference. So a lot of these

people that are coming in, yeah,
you gotta do a lot of stuff. You

gotta spread yourself thin. How
many bands did you play in one

year that didn't have a
scheduling clock? 2929 bands.

What year was that? 1999 right?
You remember the year you were

playing the lottery,

totally playing, right? 27 of
those acts do not exist anymore,

but you still had this. You
know, you can't win if you don't

play. This is the rich Redmond
show.

What's up, folks? Yep, it's that
time. It's time for another

exciting episode of the rich
Redmond show. We talk about

things like music, motivation,
success. Drummers. We love the

drummers. They're everywhere.
They're all over Nashville. This

is used to be guitar town. Now
it's drum town. Everybody's

coming from New York, LA,
they're coming from all the

schools all across the nation,
and they know that they can buy

land here, they could put their
kids through school, and they

can make a living playing the
drums. And we're gonna talk to a

great drummer today, but first I
want to catch up with Jim

McCarthy. Jim McCarthy
voiceovers.com, Hello, Jim. How

was your holidays, buddy?

It was busy. I take that back.
Maybe it wasn't so busy. It was

relaxing. We got to pull the
plug a little bit. Yeah, we got

to smoke a cigar recently.
Today, cigars, which is no one

has done that. I'm feeling very
Mark Marin right now because

he's always bragging about how
people bring him gifts. This is

the first gift that we have
gotten on the show. Oh my god,

actually,

no, we had the keyboard player.
He brought us some some gifts to

Ray luzier brought us some
coffee.

Oh, yeah, some nice coffee.
Yeah. And I didn't have a

grinder, a bean grinder, so then
the I gave the coffee to John

hull on the road, Paul, Paul,
Brother Paul. Brother Paul.

Brother Paul is always actually
brother Paul and his band, the

water boys, just had a big write
up in Rolling Stone magazine,

yeah, they put out this amazing,
like, conceptual album that took

five years to make, and the
critics are all raving about it.

So he's a, what an amazing
person. Shout out to Brother

Paul. So positive, so positive.
And I still have his you know

how he was in really into tea?

Yeah, he brewed his own tea. I
still have his tea pot. I had

him on my podcast, the mostly
Middle Tennessee business

podcast, mmtbp.com, check it
out. It's actually, he was on my

podcast.

You're a promo sexual he did the
same exact thing. Yeah, yeah.

Well, hey, listen, this is that
time of year in Nashville where

the stores are empty. Everyone
is robbed of milk and water,

everyone's bread, French toast
tomorrow apparently. I mean,

it's crazy. It's that time
everything's getting salted. And

it's also, if you're the kind of
person that gets fever blisters,

maybe you kiss the wrong person
in college, and this thing just

keeps following you around. I'm
sporting a major one right now,

so if you can't see it,

the concept of TMI,

I just kissed the wrong person.
Jim, hey, this is a great

drummer. This is like timing is,
you know what the secret to

comedy is? Jim,

timing, timing,

where's the splashable? So our
friend, born and raised in

Columbus, Ohio, he graduated
with a music business degree

from Capital University. He is a
working drummer. I mean,

actually, he has a podcast
called The Working drummer

podcast. He's played all over
the 50 states. He's played all

the cool spots in Nashville, the
rhyme and the grand old Opry,

all the hipster rock and roll
rooms. He's played with guys

like Mark Selby, Eddie, Raven,
Billy Dean. We're talking

Michelle Wright, Julie Roberts.
Recently, most current gig, he's

been playing with the front men
of country, which is Larry

Stewart of restless art, Richie
McDonald of Lone Star. You know

Richie, our friend Tim rush low
of little Texas. And what else

do I want to brag. He works with
producers like Eric Fritz, Jim

Riley, um, we have that in
common. Great people. And his

podcast, the working drummer.
Working drummer podcast, working

drummer.net. Started in 2015 he
has a sidekick, a co host, Zach

albeit, he does an amazing job.
And today is very special,

because they're celebrating 500
episodes. Our friend, Matt

Krause rich, What's up, buddy?
What an intro. Man, good to see.

Yeah. Man,

oh, he's got some new sounds
over

there. Oh, they're not new. Oh,
I

just never used it. Jim finally

labeled the buttons toilet
flush. Oh,

remember some of the old ones?
Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, the

pooping and puking. Yeah,

we're children in adult skin.
That's good. I'm feeling

inspired. You know, we were
trying to go organic and create

our own sounds, but I didn't
know. What if you want virus,

man, I, you know, I you have to
extend a thank by proxy to Kevin

rappilo, Angela Lisi, our
friend, Chad Melcher, Canadian,

great Canadian, and I'm trying
to think of

these. Are all guests on your
podcast,

guests on our podcasts that have
brought Justin Amaral was very

kind, brought, uh, some
wonderful gifts that I'm just

I'm just blown away by their
kindness. And I'm and it's one

of those things that you learn
that you're like. It sometimes

only takes that one time to make
a really good impression. Yeah,

I was in a band that worked with
a an investor, and he sat down

and he told us, look, listen,
after you do this gig, maybe

take a picture with the person
and then develop the film, put

it in a frame, sign it. Thanks
so much for hiring us. Send it

off. And we're all sitting there
going, what? Yeah, and it's

those relationships, because
this business, yeah. But

that was just, that was just
very thoughtful. And you brought

us some coffee, some black
coffee, which is great. Thank

you so

much. Is there a possibility to
make a good second like a bad

first impression, but have a an
ability to make a better

impression on the second round.
You believe in that? I

I believe that it's always best
to do it on the first time

around, because that is
ingrained in people's minds. But

I think a lot of people
understand that everyone has a

bad day, and maybe you caught
that person on a

bed. Yeah, here's another funny
thing to to your point that you

must have said about like
somebody sending you a special

gift which made an indelible
imprint in your mind. Check this

out. So I keep this card behind
me, right? It's a picture of me

that is the most handsome
picture of you. Thank you.

Because, you know, as we get
older, it's much tougher to take

good pictures of ourselves. And
I was sitting in a hotel room.

We were going for orientation at
my daughter's college at UTC

Yeah, and I looked up, I was
getting some work done, and I

looked up in the mirror from the
laptop, and I'm like, you know,

I actually kind of look good if
I could take a picture with

like, and I put up a thing on
Facebook talking about, like,

you know, as you get older, you
just kind of, you're not in love

with some of the pictures you
take. As you get older and

older, I'm, at least me. I'm
that's probably because of the

weight, but, you know, I'm
working on it. And this one has

a great picture, and I just kind
of put up a post about it. Got a

lot of cool comments. This guy
printed it out. I'm not even in

his industry. Yeah, he does like
F and I for training for the car

business. I pray that your
special day brings an abundance

of happiness. Is my birthday
card. We went and sent me a

birthday card. Peace and true
joy to you today and always have

a happy birthday. My friend,
velko to Kyiv, so velko, kudos

to you. Yeah, it's sitting on my
desk now. Yeah, it's like, I

will never it's like, Dude,
that's awesome. I

need to start being more super
thoughtful like that, you know,

because, you know, you know, we
have our companies, or, you

know, our company relationships
that we meet everybody at the

NAM show. And next thing you
know, you're endorsing a drum

company or something. And you
want, you know, at the holidays,

you might want to send them
some, maybe a some Harry and

David cookies or pears or
something. But a lot of times

it's like, you know, it's a
Starbucks card. You know what? I

mean, it's just like, let's
it's, let's just cover our

bases. I can buy everybody
everything right now at this

counter, but it's not very
thoughtful. I mean, this is

thoughtful.

Thank you. Well, and also, I
could, I had lunch with a friend

of mine years ago, and it was
our first time meeting, and he

sent me a handwritten thank you.
Yeah, that showed up at my

house. Wow. And I've held on to
that. It

makes an impression, yeah,
because somebody put effort into

that. Yeah, you know, it's
crazy,

you know, I used to do, and this
is some shame on me. I guess

things have either gotten busier
or I've gotten lazier. Is that

every time I would do a drum
clinic, I would write a

handwritten thank you card, and
I would send it to the store so

you are thoughtful. Come on. I
used to do it, and now I'm now

just like, it's like a text,
thanks so much for having me,

guys. I'll see you next time. I
mean, I don't know. I think it's

just a product of the times
we're living. Well,

yeah, well, it's easy to really
stand out, because if you do go

analog, you can certainly make
an impression

Exactly, exactly. I think
there's so many times I have got

two young son, well, young adult
sons, however, yeah, they're 19

and 22

oh my god, yeah. They don't look
old enough. That's a lot of cool

testosterone in the house. Man,

it is. But they're mostly out of
the house. Yeah, one's getting

married. But anyways, I remind
them I said. It doesn't take

much these days to stand out. It
really does, if it holding a

door, looking, not staring at
your phone, but paying attention

when using correct

grammar and just English in a
text message and not text speak.

I like I'm trying to break my
kids of that, not luv. Or, or,

oh, you know what drives me nuts
when people refer to people as

ppl? Pupil, Oh, yeah. Oh, that
drives me

purple, all those little things.
And I think that I see it paying

off, yeah, little things that
they

do. So, man, you're a world
class drummer. You've been here

26 years. You're in the
trenches. Everybody knows

Nashville is you know, a place
where you come to move the

career floor forward. It's New
York, it's LA or it's Nashville.

Of course, I always talk about
the tertiary markets. Those are

great your Austin's, your Miamis
your Seattle, they have great

music scenes. But really,
there's, there's, like, three

big ones, and Nashville is
becoming the favorite, right?

Yeah, where it's like, wow. You
know, I just moved here to

Spring Hill, Tennessee. I took
myself. I used to live right by

you. Was this from our old
neighborhood, Starbucks corner.

So convenient, yes, so
convenient. But, you know, you

can, you know, for the moment,
you could buy a home here, and

there's dirt and and, and, but
at the same time, you know, we

could be, we could challenge
ourselves. There's classical

music here, there's rock and
roll music here, there's

contemporary Christian all types
of Country and Western music.

Busses are leaving this town
every single day. Songs are

being written right now. It was
a game changer for you to move

here right as far as like, what
you were aspiring to do and what

you did, you did it, yeah, well,

it was, for me, it wasn't moving
to Nashville. It was moving out

of Columbus, right? It was
moving away from home, yeah?

Because, as we were discussing
off air before we started, I

went to school. I went to
college, studied at a university

level in my hometown, capital,
university

with Bob brouthype, brighthope.
Brighthope, sorry, yeah, sorry,

Bob, because I saw Bob last two
basics ago, because I went to

one of those Yamaha sounds of
summer drum set camps. And it

was Ed So Bob and Steve
Houghton. They

used to do that every summer at
Capitol University, every

summer, yeah. And when I worked
for Bob one summer, he's like,

Listen, if you just want to hang
out at some of the sessions

while you're working for me,
we'll, you know, do that. That's

how I afford it, to kind of hang
out, yeah? So we both kind of

went there, right, yeah, right.
And there was one other Ed Soph,

Ed Soph and

Steve Houghton. Steve Houghton,
that was where Steve Houghton

was like, Hey, kid, you know,
you're up tempo swing. You

gotta, like, double down on
that. That's an Achilles heel.

Like, you know, he wasn't, he
was great. He just cut to the

point your reading's Great.
Style is great. Use it then to

get down to Cadet and get get
that going here, you know? I was

like, All right,

thanks, Steve, yeah, and
Columbus is another one of those

towns with the talent. Is
amazing. I was so inspired by so

many of the musicians and the
drummers that were there. Yeah.

I also, after college, started
working at Columbus pro

percussion. Nice, Jim Rupp shop
owner, yeah, okay, that's right

time. Okay, yeah, not anymore,
but so I got to meet and got to

know all these players that I
was aspiring to be more like.

And when you're a kid, you think
all you got to do is get good

and you'll be successful. Well,
we know that's not true. Yeah.

And it was more profound to me
when I saw some of my favorite

players struggling to buy
sticks. Whoa. And I had friends

that had moved to Nashville and
were saying, When are you coming

down? When are you coming down?
You know, mid to late 90s, they

were here. They were doing it.
Listen, musicians are treated

with respect. It's a legit
vocation. I don't know. I mean,

I was feeling comfortable. I was
still in my hometown. I knew the

lay of the land. I was getting
to know the community. I was

playing with so many people. I
was subbing for my heroes, yeah?

And I was working in a rock
band, pop band, deadhead band,

Brazilian Brazilian band,
fusion, uh, plan and a 22 piece

Big Band every Monday night.
Nothing like with my former

teacher, yeah, but learning more
in that moment than I did when I

was in school

in an academic environment,
yeah, yes, yeah. So I felt like

I had more

to do. Yeah. And then my
relationship with my now wife,

was growing, and it's like there
was just a lot going on. I

wasn't ready to go. Meanwhile,
one of my high school friends,

Jay Demarcus, had moved down. I
did not know that. I did not

know that. Yeah, okay, so in
high we went to a vocational

school together. You start to
school, studied piano and bass,

and he was in a Christian rock
band, and he's like, come play

drums with us. And so I played
in that band for a little while,

and then right out of high
school, he was like, I'm going

Nashville. And I'm like, what
you're supposed to go to

college? That's what you do
after high school? He's like,

not me, yeah. A lot of my
friends, yeah. And just that was

just hardwired in me to do that,
which I'm still very grateful

that I did. So Jay was one of
those people. So Nashville had a

draw for all the organic
reasons. All those reasons you

knew people. You knew that it
would be a respected thing. It

didn't have the scariness of
hailing taxis, learning the

subway system, living on the
405, and yes, and that makes

sense. But I could totally
relate to that, because when I

was in Dallas, kind of, my
finishing school was in Denton,

and you're getting all sorts of
academic experience, and then,

you know, it's like me and Jim
Riley and Carlock and Luke Adams

and Blair Simpson, all of us. We
would work in Dallas. And Dallas

had such a beautiful, robust
scene. It was like, Well, I want

to play in that fusion band, and
I want to play in that and I

would play in a 22 piece Big
Band on Monday nights, and then

another one on Tuesday nights.
And it was like, my finishing

school was like, I really want
to check this box, yep, and then

I'll make this move. So I was 26
when I moved here, and quickly

turned 27 and my first person
that I saw and met here was Jim

Riley, wow. Who was your first
person that when you moved here?

You know, did you run into
somebody at the at the Lowe's or

the Starbucks or the

who was the first hand you shook
that?

Oh my gosh, who was the first
person you networked with?

Yeah, man, right. Well, I think

I needed to start working and
paying rent, because I was still

traveling from Nashville to
Columbus, which is a seven hour

drive, and still playing with
some of the bands in Columbus

and coming back, and then
putting my rent on my credit

card and just oh, gosh, another
friend, Josh Berkheimer,

elementary school friend, wow,
Columbus that I've known longer

than anybody alive. Right now, I
haven't talked to Josh in

forever. Is he still at it? He's
great, yeah, he's back in town

and just, yeah, staying really
busy. And but I needed a job,

and I think I went to a temp
agency and worked in an office

for like, two weeks in office
space, the real office, the real

office. I mean, I did the job
for two weeks before I got off

for the job at forks, drum
closet, all right, Gary, so it

was, it was an easy transition.
Gary knew Jim, one of their key

employees, was leaving, also
named Matt. It was a easy fit,

yeah, and but I quickly learned
Nashville is not Columbus. And

from a retail point of view, you
have Touring professionals a lot

with endorsements. You don't
have the weekend warriors. You

don't have the people with real
jobs just, I mean, selling in

Columbus at COVID propagation
was easy. I was probably the

worst salesman at forks, drum
closet, really. Yeah, a lot of

those guys to this day still
make fun of me and laugh at the

live opportunities. Why

did they think that?

Well, I think someone would come
in and say, I think I need a new

pedal, and I'd take it, and my
gym rep sensibility would be

like, well, let's take a look at
this. Oh, well, just need a new

spring, and let's clean this and
oil it up. And there you spend

$5 and off you go. Oh, instead

of setting so instead of taking
advantage of the opportunity,

you just figured I would just,

yeah, and Gary's like, what are
you doing?

You gotta, I mean, forks does
have a beautiful repair

department. They do.

They do. And, I mean, I'm being
somewhat hyperbolic, but at the

same time, they weren't angry.
They were just like, man, you

could have is

your training? Does Gary put you
through, like, a day or

something where it's like, this
is sales 101, it

was Marcy goosey, where Columbus
percussion. It's like, well, we

have these seminars through Nam.
We're going to send you guys off

to do this. I was the president
of the Student Association of

Nam because of my degree in
music business. So I was doing

that. I was I was not focused on
working in the retail industry

or doing music business per se.
I wanted to be a player, which

is why I moved to Nashville.
Yeah, it was interesting. So I

mean, love forks, love Gary, and
we got to a point where I was

getting more and more calls to
do gigs and could not sustain

the workload he needed from me.
And

when, what year was this? 2000
2001 Okay, I think

before my time. Yeah. And so
he's like, You need to make a

choice. Either I need you here
or can't have you working here.

And I was like, Gary, thanks for
the opportunity. I moved down

here to play, yeah? And we had,
you know, probably a day or two.

We were just not happy with each
other. And then we're like,

quickly

reestablish. I'll come back and
shop here, you know, because, I

mean, that was around the time
when, you know, I'm sure I would

come in and chat with you, yeah,
down in, because now that

original Gary is so he was so
forward thinking. It really did

start as a drum closet, and then
he was able to open the closet

up a little bit more. Then he
got that space next to corner

music, which is now a, you know,
high dollar athleisure V A

store. So bougie, yeah. Mean, it
is, it is the best athleisure.

If you like Lulu Lemon, you will
love viori. Anyways,

is it kind of like a knockoff
brand, or is it the superior

brand, Lulu Lemon?

It's a little bit more, I think
it's a little bit more

expensive. Does it have the va
va voom with the ladies? Yeah,

oh yeah. But actually, their
men's line is, is nice. So if

you want, like, nice workout
pants that like taper and make

you feel sexy. You go and you
drop them why? Because you had

you. And I would always teach
each other to why. And I at the

YMCA on Old Hickory Boulevard,
and I miss it. They closed it

down. I miss it too. It was so
great because there was a lot of

it was like an older community
that would go there, and a lot

of times there would be no one
there, and you and I would just

have the run of the place, and I
realized you were a serious, you

know, serious about maintaining
your playing career and staying

healthy and wanting to be
healthy for the rest of your

life. Because you weren't doing
all these, just like standard,

all right, let's do some squats.
We're doing, do some burpees.

I'm out of here. You were doing
all sorts of things with

kettlebells and stretching and
all that stuff to Yeah, you

know,

stretching is like the elixir
for age, right? Do it every day?

Yeah, it's the science is still
out. We just can't slow it down,

right? I mean, it totally and,
and again, at forks when I was

there, that's where I met people
like you, yeah, and, and drummer

Jim Riley, and such a hub, yeah,
and I'm trying to think of Trey

gray. Trey gray. We became close
there, and I got to know so much

about what country music was. I
knew nothing about I knew Garth

Brooks and Dolly Parton and
Kenny Rogers was, yeah, but I

just knew there was something
about Nashville that could offer

that. So I'm trying to think
players like Greg Morrow on a

very unassuming, so quiet, yeah,
and just sweet. And I'm like,

wait a minute, I know. I now
know who this is. This guy's a

badass, but his personality so
sweet. That's the key. I just

got to be really nice and sweet
to everyone, and they'll think

that I'm great. But

the funny thing is, to your
point, and I was, you know, when

you brought it up before about
your selling ability, that's a

sales technique. You know, you
you asking, the only thing I

would qualify because I spent
some time in sales, your your

Integris nature came out. You
know what? I mean, that's a

relationship builder that I know
this guy's not going to take

advantage of me, yeah. But I
mean, I the only thing I would

say before that me, like, Okay,
are you interested in getting a

new pedal? You just want to fix
the old one? Yeah, that would be

a good question to ask going
into it. But I mean, that

approach is very relational, the
way you went about

it, yeah, I don't want to take
anything away from what Gary No,

no, no,

absolutely still got to be a
businessman, yeah. But if you

were to in there for the long
haul, you would have built up a

book of business, as

did Gary and Melissa, right?
Because it was based on that.

And I had that scenario with Ben
Caesar earlier, when I first met

him, yeah, and as a salesman,
helping him find a new double

pedal and a new company. And
then, like, Man, I like this

guy, hearing him try out pedals
and like, Wait, whoa, who does

he play with? This is great. And
then expanding those little ways

of expanding my world and under
better understanding what

Nashville was yeah and is Yeah,
but Nashville was in 2000 2001

my new world. Where do I fit?
I'm not the kind of medium fish

in a small town, I'm a very
small fish in a big town. And

how do I manage that? And

now you're a big fish in a
little, big town. You really

are. I mean, you're a big fish.
I mean, somebody needs a

drummer, your name's going to be
on the list. That's the thing

is, you got to get on the list
right? And now you're on the

list. You put in 26 years, you
should be on the list. Thank so,

thank god, that's amazing. So,
yeah, you got to meet a lot of

the tastemakers and the guys
that were doing it totally, you

know, totally. And so before I
came, I kind of knew, all right,

you got to get to know Greg
Morrow, Chad Cromwell, Lonnie

Wilson, Eddie bears, there's a
Shannon forest kid, Paul lime,

Steve Brewster, is doing the
Christians? Like, where are

these guys? Where do they hang
out? Can I shake their hand? And

then you realize, well, I could
be a fly on the wall. I can ask

them questions, but they're not
necessarily gonna get me work.

I'm gonna have to get work from
band leaders, bass players,

keyboard players, contractors.
Yeah, you know they could. They

could. They could show you the
way. Totally, yeah, you know,

but at

least you know the to your
credit. And this came up in a

recent conversation on a podcast
that I produce, the people

coming to town now, especially
in the songwriting arena, they

don't seem to have a reverence
for those who came before them,

understanding that they're
standing on the shoulders of

giants. Three chords in the
truth. Yeah, no, but Harlan

Howard, apparently that's a
thing now, like there's just

they have no idea who people
are, the people that wrote the

biggies. You know that they're

trying to, you're right. I mean,
I think it's, is that say, is

that the same nuance than that?
Because I know you have people

that reach out to you and say,
Rich. I don't know if you know

who I am, but I'd love to have
coffee. Yeah? And meet river of

coffee. I had, I had that
meeting with, with a great young

drummer about a month ago. Yeah,
and one of his inspirations was,

you, wow. So it, I mean, there
are young people that are, you

know, finding, but I do have
conversations with people, and

they're like, I, don't, I don't
know who that is. Wow,

what Eddie bears. You mentioned
Eddie bears or something like

that.

No, no, no, wasn't Eddie, but,
you know, could have been even

somebody like Greg Morrow or
somebody like that, Jim

McCarthy.

That's understandable, so, but,
I mean, I Jim played in

Connecticut white bread, though.
I mean, that's, you can't deny

it. That is a good

I mean, that's, that's, you
know. I also

wonder if access to information
is so easy now

there's no excuse for it these
days, you know. But I'm

wondering if that would be

the excuse is like I can access
everything I need to know

through the pot, through a
podcast, through YouTube

interviews, through all this
stuff, where, if you wanted to

find something out, even as
simple as how to get from point

A to point B, you had to pull
out a map. You had to do, we're

from that generation, so not to
be the old guy on the lawn, but

how do you kind of repurpose
those skills? Yeah, in a way

that's useful

is there, is there a reverence
for the amount of access to, you

know, again, standing on the
shoulders of giants, those

giants that are in town, like
when I first moved here, was for

radio, yeah. And moved here in
oh, five, having a heavy

drumming background. Once upon a
time, I would go to forks and

see, you know, hey, you can get
lessons from Chester Thompson

and Johnny Rabb. And I'm like,
Oh, my God, right, really? Yeah,

that's so cool.

And, and how do you, how do you
have that reverence? But how do

you make that transition from
it's time for me to go, it's

time for me to work
professionally, and, you know,

share the space or have my gig
as well. Yeah, that reverence

has never gone away, if
anything, it remains. And after

doing the podcast, which I'm
sure we'll talk about, yeah, uh,

I've learned that I that
reverence is transferable to my

peers, to younger players that I
feel inspired by and and kind of

see it as a as a community that
gives me more peace of mind, as

opposed to, where do I fit? How
will people see me, and the

competitive that you know,
competitive nature is in and

shedding that, yeah, so that you
can then get back to what

inspired you to pick up the
sticks. Well,

as we know, the drum community
is the best, you know, you know,

back in the day, you know, when
I said,

Thanks, bye See, ya

know, I'd go to The Great Escape
and and it was like a comic book

store, but it also had used
records and tapes, and I would

just get, you know, you know,
uh, Tammy wynette's Greatest

Hits and Merle Haggard's
Greatest Hits and Gene Watson's

Greatest Hits. And so that's
what, how I started to learn the

vernacular of country music. And
then we could look at the actual

written credits and go, oh yeah,
Jerry crew, and oh Tommy wells,

oh my God, oh Eddie bears. And
then so you I learned these

names, and now we just keep
trying to buy records. Now, if

you have $13 a month for
Spotify. You have all the

world's music at your
fingertips. So then you could

just Google top Nashville
session recording drummers.

Boom, it comes up. Those are all
the names you can go to drummer

world, right? You could read
about the guy. Then you could go

to their allmusic.com you could
look at their discography. Then

you could start to go on Spotify
and put playlists together by

style, by artist, by Tempo, or
by drummer. I was like, so all

the kids that come with study
with me, I'm like, hey, put

together an Eddie bears
playlist, a Lonnie Wilson play.

You're gonna now you're covering
80s. You're covering 90s, the

early 2000s you got these
playlists and find out what

makes these drummers ticks. Do
they do they like high pitched

snare drums? They're the do they
program loops a lot, what's

their their vibe and their
swagger, and why does Lonnie

Wilson never play the ride
cymbal? And you know what I

mean, but, but there's a lot of
crashes, and everybody has this

thing that they brought to the
table, right? Which is so cool,

and

I think you're making me realize
and telling us that about what

inspired me to start the
podcast. Because when I was

working retail at Columbus or in
Nashville, I had this really

organic way of discovering who
these players were, yeah, and

then using that as a launching
point to then go down those

rabbit holes. And, you know,
it's like, oh, so this is Greg

Morrow. He played on that
Montgomery Gentry record of all

those songs that I've I have to
learn for this week. This is my

town, right? Yeah. And it's
like, as I'm learning those

songs for gigs and writing
charts, I'm like, wow, that

that, or when I was one of my
first big artist gigs, well,

artist gigs. What a musical
artist gigs was Mark Selby,

yeah. And. He was kind of like a
rocker, yeah, for sure, but we

were, you know, opening up for
country artists and doing

different things like that, and
and Chad Cromwell played on his

record that we were touring on.
And so I got to dig deep into

that, his style, his approach,
his sound, and then talk to Mark

about that experience. What does
he do and then meet him

personally? So when I left that
I I missed that interaction,

that that actual match, as
opposed to just like, turning on

YouTube or whatever, and kind
of, like, no, I need, I need to

know more, not because I'm
looking for gigs from drummers,

but like, how does it? How do I
stay dialed in to the

vernacular, to Gosh? Deep
Brewster is such a great example

of a drummer that's been on the
scene for decades, yeah, and a

seasoned player, but knows that
he has to stay current with drum

tones, sounds, styles,
approaches, because he's in the

studio, and young producers,
young songwriters, are going to

be like, Okay, here's the song,
let's go. And he's going to be

like, I know what to do for
this. As opposed to, well, this

is what we used to do, and this
is how we did it, and this is

how I did it, yeah? He knows
that doesn't fly. Yeah, he's a

perfect example of that. And so
that, I don't know, again,

drumming community the best,
yeah, and it's, we're, we're in

a practice, right? Like, like a
doctor, like a lawyer. It's,

it's forever, yeah, it's, it's,
it will continue to be, you

know, that type Yeah, totally.

And now, now, I'm sure you have
your Nashville family tree where

it's like, this, be got that. Be
got that. So you're working with

Mark Selby, and then then maybe
you get a call from Billy Dean,

and you're working with Michelle
Wright, and you're touring

Canada, and maybe you're playing
with Julie Roberts, and you get

to play the Grand Ole Opry. Now,
this last gig that you did for a

while front men of country
music, yeah, that to be fun.

Tell us about that experiment,
because those are three. I

because those are three iconic
voices, yeah,

yeah, yeah. So again, that all
stems again. I love the way you

refer to it as the family tree,
and I can see the base of it,

and then it branches off. You do
a gig, you meet somebody, you

really connect, and it branches
off. And then on a next gig, you

meet somebody else. So one of
the scenes that I've been in and

out of in the 2526 years has
been lower broad, yeah, like so

many people, I don't live down
there. There's been moments

where I've gone five, six years
without stepping foot down

there. But in working down there
with players that I adore, I met

a bass player whose close friend
was a guitar player who was

really close with Larry and did
a bunch of stuff with Restless

Heart. And so he was starting to
form a core band that would go

out and support these guys doing
solo or dual acts. So we did a

Tim rush low show. Yeah, we did,
you know, Larry and Richie

together. We did those. And then
they're like, over time, it

started to get more and more,
and they're like, Okay, they're

gonna combine, and we're gonna
do a super corporate, call it

the front men of country. So I
was on the ground floor of that,

yeah, and so it was exciting,
but I had just left a road gig

after, you know, oh, is this the
savannah jack man. Savannah jack

man, after 15 years feeling good
about working from home, doing

more home studio stuff. Okay,
work, building my network again,

diversifying my portfolio, if
you will, gotta make

sure you have gold and you got
to have art, gold bars and art,

that's right. And Doge, no, and

crypto, were you in the crypto?
No, you're not okay. I do. I got

to get in the game, man, I think

I have some Doge somewhere on a
lost app.

Oh, you might want to find that.
Yeah, I think so.

So especially after tomorrow
when Snowmageddon hits. Anyways,

I but I found myself, we're
going to Texas, and it was like

it was all fun and exciting the
way it is. You're I'm back on a

bus and but before I get to that
point, I can say, lead singers

can be tough. It can be great.
It can be the worst

Tim. Tim knows what he

wants. Yeah, he'll tell you,
Well, you got three lead

singers. Yeah, you

got three. You're like, this
could be a nightmare. I think,

canceled each other out. They
were the sweetest to work for,

and gave me a lot of power and
control from the drum throne,

nice and so, like, this is
record tempo. Do we want to move

it? Uh, I feel like you're
pushing. Do we want to do this?

No, no, you let us know. What do
you where do you want to go? How

do you want I mean, lots of
collaboration in those early

rehearsals. They're so chill,
yeah. And

I'm like, I like this. Did you
have two clicks as a general

rule from the studio recording?
Or no, I

did not. I don't remember
exactly. I think it's when I

hear where they're putting the
melody. And each one of those

guys has one singing right down
the middle, one's on top, and

one's behind, or, you know, so
it's just trying to treat each

one differently. Now they would
sing each of their hits, 40

number one hits between three of
them, you know, 30 million

whatever. And so playing some of
these hits with the playing

bluest eyes of Texas, with Larry
singing, yep, was goosebump.

What did they sing in your
house?

Front Porch, looking in No, did
they sing

from your house? Though? Jim,
did you have a home concert?

Yeah, why? Because back in the
day, I have a story. That's why

I resonate on this is okay. When
the front men were getting

started, Tim reached out to me
because I was doing the vid SIGs

at the time. You can recall
those, the white background

videos. That's how you and I met
totally and they saw yours, they

saw Reggie hams and stuff like
that. So I think I don't know if

Tim reached out to you and you
pointed him my way, or maybe he

reached out to Reggie. But
anyway, he called me up, told me

who he was. I'm like, Oh, hey,
how you doing? He's like, So,

hey, we want to do a video, much
like you did for Reggie and

rich. And I said, Okay, you
know, I said, I shoot him in my

front room, man, you know, are
you okay with that? Are you guys

are used to hide budget music
videos, and I've seen the Lone

Star videos where they're on
glass floors and all this. I'm

like, It's not that. It's my
front room and it's your front

room, looking in my front room,
looking in, yeah, and he, we

ended up shooting the video with
all three of them. And it was,

it was one of those things that
was kind of so profound. Because

when I moved here in oh five, I
just always had this impression.

I said, you know, Courtney, my
wife, Courtney, I said, I just

have a feeling we're gonna have
people of note, like artists in

our house. And that happened, I
believe in oh nine or 10, four

years after we moved here. I
mean, literally, it was a night

where she, like, made all the
food and everything, and like

catering, if you will, and
Larry's trying out the pizza she

made. And so great, Richie's
asking which tie he should wear.

He's asking Courtney for advice,
and I'm looking at her, and

Richie starts playing,

amazed, yeah. And you know,

already there, and all these
amazing songs in our living

room, and it's the voice, and
I'm looking at Courtney, I'm

like, can you freaking believe

this is in our house? Yeah, very

intuitive. You made it

happen, buddy. I just, I just
knew, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So

that was, that had to be fun.
Yeah, it

was, it was fun, and it was, I
found myself back out, and it

was, and still, those guys, as
legendary as they are, they were

starting a new band and a new
project, yeah. And so their

budgetary concerns and so, you
know, it was great. They leased

a bus. We weren't in a van and
trailer, and that was beautiful.

She'd leave on a Friday, go to
Texas, play on a Saturday, be

back sometime Sunday. Yeah,
there's three days in town. I

was missing. And, you know, they
were taking care of us, yeah,

but I was still missing
opportunities, and I So, long

story short, it just got to a
point where, like, I felt like I

was re establishing myself from
a home base, and I was missing

that. I was missing some regular
gigs that I had worked really

hard to build up to. And if I
was, some of those gigs were on

Broadway, but they were coved
gigs, and if I couldn't make

them, then a lot of these
people, like, you're never here.

We've got somebody that can be
here. Love you. We're gonna call

you for this and this and this.
And I'm like, makes sense? Thank

you. Awesome. I'm glad to be on
the list. I just wasn't first

call. I got bumped down, second,
third, fourth, yeah. I'm like,

this helps me main juggle many
things. Yes,

well, you're doing you're doing
the podcast, and then you're

doing your home recording,
whichever, which is an

expectation nowadays. And I've
seen your setup. It's down

there. It's all, you're all
oralex and software, it up and

you're ready to go, which is
awesome. What are some of the

places down on lower Broadway
that that are COVID? Are there

more room? Are some of the rooms
they pay better, or there's

better crap,

you know, I think, I think it's,
it's sometimes it's the shift.

It could be the environment,
could be the crew. So places

like old red, what used to be
wild horse, is now category 10.

Luke. Combs is place. Combs is
place. And so the pay, the

opportunity, with some of the
bands, some of the talent that

is working down there that is
either does really well when

they play down there, so they
don't have to play eight days a

week, no. So they're playing
there a couple times. They also

have other plate spinning, which
led to the front man game, yeah,

you know, yeah. So, like, I
don't like that place. I don't

want to go. Ever go down there,
it's like, man, that's great.

That's fine. If you can, you can
do that. But again, I see it not

as an ending, an end game. I
mean, it is, it is a it is

another piece of the pie. Yeah,
you know, it's another so you

can go down there, you can meet
people, and they may be

producing and so one of the one
of the groups I work down there

with, the guitar player, has his
own studio and works with other

I mentioned, there's a producer
here, spring two blocks away,

yeah, from here that has kept me
busy for the last four and a

half years. Nice as a as a
result of the relationship that

I built with another musician
doing some of those slower

Broadway games. Yeah.

Well, so old red, that's not, I
mean, I've been down there.

That's nice. It simply seems
like the kid is well maintained.

It seems like more than ever the
kits are little bit more well

maintained. Back in the day, was
there be, like, it was all Thai

kits, or it was all maypex Kids,
or like that, you know, these

companies, and now that then
there was, like, a pearl period.

I mean, I have my places that I
love to go down there, like

when, when tourists come into
town, or friends they want to

see lower Broadway, I always
take them to Roberts. I just

think Roberts is the holy grail
of honky tonks. Like you're

walking into 1950 right, and
people are swing dancing and

they're line dancing, and you
got the crinkle fries, and then

just the spiders and the boots
on the walls, and everybody on

stage is wearing the pearl snap
shirts. And it just feels so

nostalgic. And then you could
walk right next door, and then

they hire the entire bands
playing to clicks. They got

iPads and in ear monitors, and
it's like, Oh my God. It's like

a robo band. It's like,
completely different from the

you know? It's just a different
energy and vibe, and the two

places are right next door,
right amazing. And

I think my interest especially
when one of the first places I

played is the stage, and it was
just been a home base for me for

a long time, and I wanted to use
those experiences in the early

days of in ears, different
things like that, as a way to

acclimate to what was expected
from a live drummer and a studio

drummer when I was first here in
2000 the early 2000s I'd never

played live with a click. My
experience in the studio was

limited, but I was on the fast
track to figure out what it was

that I needed to do to work in
Nashville. So then, when I got

the call to play with somebody
like Billy Dean. They're like,

we play to a click. Gotcha. No
problem, you know. And listen,

can you learn all these songs by
tomorrow? And, yeah, yeah. And

we have number charts. Can you
do that? Gotcha? Yeah, I'm good

to go. I was ready to do it now.
It's a little bit more common.

We know drummers who grew up
with laptops and playing the

clicks and yeah and all that
stuff. But that was not common.

Now I'm in a place where I'm
trying to learn how to play

without clicks.

It's just, it's part of our
thing. It's so crazy. Yeah,

going back to that. So is that
really happening?

They're actually going away from
clicks.

No, no, no. I'm just saying,
personally, like, I probably

more comfortable with a click
than without, which it was

really funny that after 25 years
of it, yeah, yeah, yeah, you and

you do a lot of times, you're
just doing gigs, you're doing

playing songs on the fly, and
it's like, there's no click,

there's this, like, with, think
of the chorus, you know, like,

big counting off, Big Band
tunes. Think of the shout

chorus, think of the melody and
like, get your tempo from there.

That's how I played every gig,
whether it was the big band, the

Brazilian, the rock band, yeah,
it's like, there was no

reference. There was we could
have played it too fast. Could

have played it too slow. Could
have been different from night

to night only. But we, when we
listen to our heroes and our

band, the bands that we love,
were like, yeah, there was no

click on that, but it sounds so
good.

New York, New York, one,

two. You know, you get the feel
for it, yeah, yes. Here you go.

Like, what's the template?
Nobody has time for that. Some

of those tributes.

I mean, Nashville has more
tribute bands between, you know,

Tyson Leslie and Brian Russell
Collins and all the, you know,

the Nashville drummer jam stuff.
He's like, Okay, we're gonna,

we're doing a Van Halen night.
So it's like, one two, it's

just, so it's, but I'll usually
bring a little light, and all

goes red, green, red, green, off
one two. So these are, there's a

reference from something. And
then halfway through, I'm on the

belting thing on red, gray and
red, green, you're checking

yourself. Always check myself.
Halfway

through, I don't

think Alex did, Alex. Alex did
not. Sammy Hagar, when he was

here, I was there, too rich.

You were somewhere, and I, I was
going to invite you to come

along, because tickets weren't
that expensive, yeah, but it was

the second night that Aronoff
filled in. Yeah, nice. Just

hearing him play, you know, I
just knew he was running a

click. And there was a couple
songs when they're like, oh, it

needs to be faster, and he's,
this is the reference, but I

felt for him, and I'm

like, oh, there was a couple
little. He had a little, like, a

rhythm watch or something.

I don't know exactly what he
had, but he had stuff running,

and he had his iPad with

dude. Had to learn a two hour
set over 24 hours, yeah? But if

anybody can do it, I mean, it's
Yeah, so deep into the pool, you

know? Yeah. Circling back to to,
sorry, I'm used to hosting. This

is great. It's not so much
easier being a guest. No, you

don't think so? No, well, I love
being a guest because I

like being No, hey, this is fun.
I like being a guest. Yeah?

No, no, no. I mean, it's, it's,
that's, that's an interesting

concept. I mean, we could talk
about that later we get to the I

mean, also your, your your
interview style is, it's, I'm

not going to call it buttoned
up, because you're not a

buttoned up guy, but it's, it's
more in the Actors Studio, it's

very like, you have, it just
seems like there's certain

things you want to hit, and
you're very well communicated,

very eloquent, and you're
hitting those things, and

they're, they're more of like,
this is more of, like, a wacky

radio show where yours is, like,
these are time capsules that are

people are going to be like, oh,
like, refer to working drummers

podcast episode 497, that are in
these archives, because you've

captured these things, and
they're very informative. And

not that we're not informative,
but we just do it in a wackier

way. No, I

get that, and I think it changes
from guest to guest.

You think we're wacky? I don't
think we're wacky. We're just

conversational, inept
descriptor,

but his show is very it is it's
it has wacky

moments. It depends. Yeah,
sometimes when Rich is on, it

can get a little wacky.

Well, I'm lucky you had me on
two times.

We should do it like the both of
us. Guess not his

Oh, here you go. I was going to
say one of the things that has

been beneficial about doing club
gigs like on Broadway is when

the band was out, when the front
men had an opportunity to open

up for Alabama, was one of the
first few times. And we're

playing this arenas in Texas,
and they hadn't thought about

like, wait a minute, they're
gonna bring us on this large

stage. We need to have some
stuff going. We're not just

gonna walk out there. We're not
playing a small venue. Oh. Like,

walk on music. Walk on something
that's gonna lead into the first

big song. Kick it. I think it
was, was, you know, Lone Star or

something, got to Yeah, and
they're like, can you guys do

something? So the three of us,
the bass player, guitar player,

and I were like, yeah, no. What
if we vamp on this, go back and

forth, back and forth, be like,
a four bar jam, and then when I

do this fill, that'd be, of
course, we have very limited

sound check time, so we had to
kind of like, construct this

really quickly. Like, we'll do
this and then that. And like,

let's run it real quick for
sound check, and then we'll

just, we'll do that. When the
guys came up for sound check and

we showed them what we had,
they're like, that's That's

perfect. That's amazing. How'd
you guys do that so fast? I

mean, not taking anything away
from what these guys have done

in the industry, what they've
written, what they've done over

the years, you know, but between
the three of us, we've learned

and played 1000s and 1000s of
songs and had to improvise and

had to create on the spot, and
that serves you well in those

scenarios in the studio. Another
thing. So I just, I just want to

put a button on that whole thing
as we're referencing Broadway,

Nashville, and for all the shit
that it gets. Yeah, that's fine,

but this is what I've taken from
it and just seeing it as an

opportunity for growth. And how
do I use those skills and apply

that in other places?

Are you finding people to come
into town or reticent to play

Broadway?

No, I find people coming to town
to think that that is the holy

grail,

really? Yeah, that's a highly
coveted thing. It

is. But I'm like, guys, that's
not the end all. It can be a

source of income. It could be a
source but you also see it as a

source of experience. It's like
the big band gig that I used to

do every Monday night. We'd walk
away with maybe 10, $12 in our

pocket. But the Learn, the
experience that I learned from

it, the reading, the pressure.

I couldn't, I couldn't put a
price on

it. Yeah, Dallas Jazz Orchestra,

$8 and the collection Jazz
Orchestra on the Tuesdays,

$24 and how much would you spend

to get a lesson? Yeah, you know,
do

you remember your first time
going down Broadway when you got

here, and as a tourist, no, but
yeah, just you're prospecting

Nashville, and you were kind of
like, you know, these guys were

at a whole different level from
where I am.

Yeah, no, it was, I think it was
like 1997 right? My girlfriend,

I were driving down to
Pensacola, and we wanted to stop

in Nashville, so we went walk
down Broadway, and it was

interesting, you know, but it
didn't really blow me away. But

certainly, when I started
playing there in the 2000s I

would see other bands and, and,
and I think continues to this

day. I mean, it's, I

mean room to room, but I mean
the quality of the musicians is,

yeah, is different. It. But

I mean, very much is different.
I mean, I see on the first floor

at kid rocks, sometimes I'm
like, Whoa, good, bad, really. I

mean, I hear drummers like
playing the shit out of certain

journey songs, not necessarily
note for note, but like, nice.

That's really good. Yeah, that
sounds really Pro.

But coming from Columbus, like
my coming from Connecticut, it's

just a different level. I mean,
I guess I was, oh yeah, I was a

little tempered from Vegas,
because you had a really good

quality musicianship out there
as well. But, you know, coming

here, it's like, oh, these guys
are good, you know, because, I

mean, Connecticut, it was like,
you know, we had, I surrounded

myself with good players, but
they were few and far between.

I there was, it's hard for me to
answer that in a really concise

way, because the level of
musicianship in Columbus again,

so pretty was still so good, but
maybe not in the rock world that

I experienced, but like in in
the jazz world, in the Latin

world, in the funk world, yeah,
there were guys that used to

play with George Clinton that
were in a band that still exists

now in plays like once a week,
and there's some of the baddest

ass musicians on the planet. But
again, the

machinery doesn't exist in those
kind of markets, the places that

rehearse, the recording studios
per capita, the tour bus

companies, yeah, the whole
machinery that we have,

the focus of musicianship,
doesn't exist in those areas.

And

like, Connecticut is like, you
know, if you have, I lived in

Connecticut, I would probably be
in the best, you know, wedding

corporate circuit band in a tri
state area. That would be

easier. It would be easier to

rise to the top, yeah. And

you hear that, you hear that.
You hear people in other towns

where you're like, man, they're
a really good player, but

there's just something missing
about their touch, about their

approach, about their time, feel
totally they're set up to

interact their gear. That is
just like, there's just

something it's like, it's like
the TP stuck to the bottom of

the shoe, like it looks great.
You just got to lose the toilet

paper, this stuff at the bottom
of your shoe, your zippers open,

and you're Yeah, exactly,
exactly. The last thing I'll say

about the transition. What
inspired me was I was at

Columbus Pro and Kenny arnoff
was on tour with Fogarty. And

he's like, Hey, I got a day off.
Could I come in and do a clinic?

So there were, like, literally,
six of us sitting there. And one

of the things he said, and I had
the opportunity to tell him this

later, and he was like, I do
like three things really good,

and I've been able to make a
living at it. So I implore you,

you can have 10 c minus grooves,
or you can have three a plus

grooves. And at that point in my
life, I'm juggling all these

different bands, and I was
feeling a little bit of a draw

to Nashville, and I'm like,
That's it. That's it. I know

what I want to do. I'm going to
be a backbeat drummer, and I'm,

I'm I'm doing this, and I'm not
getting rid of the John Riley

books and the things still want
to work on that. I want it to be

a part of my personality, but I
need to focus on that, because I

want to be a full time player
and own a house, yeah, and maybe

have kids.

What did he say the three things
were, were they three skill sets

or three beats? I think it

was. He was referencing three,
like, grooves, three, not

necessarily three beats, but
like, this is, like, if you want

me for you, I'm your dude. Yeah,
if you know, I mean, Erskine has

stories of being in the studio
and being like, I don't think

I'm your guy for this track. I
can, I can, you know, suggest

somebody. And we think of these
players as just like, right?

Everything, yeah. But that was
another eye opening experience

in a time when information was
limited, yeah? So

he, in a sense, is telling you,
chop at one tree. Don't chop at

multiple Yeah? Because you'll,
you'll go, after a while, you'll

have a forest of on, you know,
half chopped trees.

And I was cool with that,
because, um, specializing

something I wanted to I was okay
with being specific. Yeah, yeah.

I

think that's, it's wonderful to
hear that even, you know, like,

Kenny will throw it out, there's
like, Hey, I got a day off. I'd

rather do a clinic for six
people than not do because I

have, I've had those where you
do, you make a booking last

minute, you commit to it, and
there's like, four people in the

room, and you just do it
anyways, and you're just like,

well, I'm working my craft. I'm,
you know, continuing my skill.

I'm making a difference in
people's lives. I always love

that about him, and he's still
that way, you know, which is,

which is fantastic. What is your
gear, man, do you have your

alliances, your gear? Before

we go that? Let me just ask real
quick and just to there was one

thing that kind of to your point
that you made earlier. I get

what he's saying, but I think
there's a lot of you still have

to put air in the tank, right?
You still need fuel. Cash is

oxygen for any business, for
anybody moving down here, you

are starting a business, whether
you like it or not, which means

you have to have some magnitude
of business acumen, definitely a

good sales approach, that. What
I think made you rich is that

you understood all that. You
knew you were somewhat of a

master salesman. You could back
it up. You had, you know, you

didn't have the clout yet. You
only had the clout coming from

Dallas and what you did, but you
certainly had the education, but

you had business, you know, you
had a salesmanship to you, you

know what I mean, and that made
a big difference. So a lot of

these people that are coming in,
yeah, you got to do a lot of

stuff. You gotta spread yourself
thin, you know, right? It's,

it's like in the business world,
like, what, even what we're

doing here, we're doing
everything from podcasts to

lighting for, you know, car
washes to video walls. Now we're

kind of getting into other
spaces. We're in garage doors.

We're doing everything just to
sustain. You're the art of the

Renaissance, but you have to,
yeah, you know, there's until

the one it's like, how many
bands did you play in one year

that didn't have a scheduling
clock? 2929

bands. What year was that? 1999
right?

You remember the year you were
playing the lottery? Totally

playing, right? 27 of those acts
do not exist anymore,

but you still had this. You
know, you can't win if you don't

play two.

Two remained, Jason Aldean and
Connecticut white bread. Big

Kenny was rush, low one of the
bands, no, in 99 No, I hooked up

with him in later. 2001

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy, I
mean, and

there was a lot of different
personalities come down and

again, like, like, meeting you.
And it's like, there's so much

more than just because I just
want to spend I just want to

hole up in my practice room,
yeah, you know. And it's like,

no, it's not that you need to
get out and see people and meet

them and, you know, press the
flag. You gotta

do it. Yeah, networking is such
a bad word, but guys, you gotta

do

it. Touch grass thing. I thought
it was no,

well, it's, it's, you know, we,
we all know our friend, Keo, you

know what I mean. It's like, I
always refer to because he's

such a man about town. It's
like, if there is a lie norm,

he's just like, the basement
east. He's gonna be there if

there's something at the exit,
and he's gonna be there, he's

gonna be at the coolest thing.
He might have be at multiple

things, you know, and, and, and
he's smart, you know, he didn't

move out to Spring Hill. He's
like, he's close by. And if he

hears about something last
minute, he is there, yeah. And

that's, like, a great business
model, and he's because he's

never out of people's minds.
He's always fresh on people's

minds, because he is always out
supporting the community.

He is, he is, my workaround is,
start a podcast.

Yeah, I was gonna say that's,
that's a good pivot, yeah,

because

I have, especially as I get
older, I have a hard time

leaving the house if I, even if
I have a gig, I'm like, what

time is load in? What's my map
app say? What is I got five

minutes before I even have

to walk out of here, like I'm
already in my jammies and my my

slippers, and you want me to
come down and play Mama Tried

for us $50 in which version. So
just just to talk a little bit

about Savannah Jack, I remember
that they're still together,

right?

The singer does maybe a handful
of gigs 15 years. That's a you

played with him for 15 years,
pretty much. I mean, it's it,

you know, it started as it was
Don Ellis Gatlin. He and his

brother, Don and Daryl Ellis,
were on Sony in the 90s. They

they were the band. They were
the duo that famously lost to

Brooks and Dunn every year. Damn
amazing singer. It started out,

you know, doing bar gigs, but
then the writing, the singing

between the three guys, they
were kind of like the rascal

flats, and I was the Jim Riley
of the band. I wasn't in the

band, but I was the drummer for
the four piece. Yeah, that

eventually became a five piece.
So it just one. Was one of those

groups that we were doing gigs,
you know, opening up for the

Doobie Brothers and Vince Gill.
So many amazing opportunities.

Honky Tonk state fairs kind of a
thing. All

everything these guys love to
play casinos. Would would, yeah,

would travel and then would work
with an agency that would put us

on and off cruise ships as the
artists, the featured artists,

so we weren't contracted. We'd
jump on these ships. We'd

perform as a band, yeah, you
know, the 45 in the main

theater. People were like, did
you bring charts for our event?

No, no, we're self contained.
Yeah. We were the only ones out

there doing it. So got to travel
all through the Caribbean, you

know, the Italy, different
things like that. So I probably

stayed on a little bit too long,
because when you're in that

close knit of a group, I don't
know if you know this, yeah, if

you've ever been in a band for
really a long time, but let me

tell you. It's like when your
parents split up, and you

actually become closer with your
father after he moves out. You

know, I still keep in touch with
it. So many amazing

opportunities. I can tell you
one thing, I wasn't because I

wasn't technically a member.
They wanted for their first

studio album to be like John
Jorgensen on guitar, yeah, David

Santos on on bass, who the
singer knew really well. You

know who we would love to have
play drums, Steve Ferroni. I'm

best friends with Steve Roney.
Let's get him so at Blackbird,

there's John David. Steve
Ferroni, I was let me tech, let

me, yeah. Oh, and we want you to
play percussion. Oh, thank you.

Great. Hey, because I didn't
feel like I needed an

explanation of why they got
Steve Ferroni to play drums on

this as we know many of our
friends who played in touring

bands, who you know, Chad
Crowell was the drummer, or

whoever was the drummer on the
record, the record, because the

goal was to get on the radio,
and if it was Keith Urban

Savannah, Jack, Jason Aldean, we
had to compete. We had to sound

sound just as good as you guys.
Yeah, on the radio. So I'm like,

no, no, it's good. The more
success that you have, the

better it is for all of us,
including me. So that was great,

great connection with Steve, and
incredible experience. And then

the second record we did, I was
on it still got John Jorgensen,

and I'm really proud of that,
nice and proud. But you know,

the band went through enough
compromises and had its moment

on a label, got, I think, number
40 on the charts with a song

with a head

top 40. I mean, Casey, Casey
would be like, Hey, this is

great, right, right, great

experience. But it came to it
came to a close for me and and

my family needed more attention,
and it's not like I was moving

back to the middle of nowhere.
Yeah, it's moving back to Music

City, yeah. And people were
waiting for me, and it took

about a year to get back up to
speed, and then I was rolling

again, yeah, and the front men
hit, and I'm like, I've already

been here. I'm missing out.
Yeah, I wanna, I gotta, you

know, it's

the it's that classic, you know,
are you a road musician or a

studio musician? And that was a
big deal in 1997 now the lines

are just blurred. I mean, I'm
sure guys that you know, like, I

just, I don't hear about Steve
Brewster ever jumping on a bus.

But for me, it's like the phone
rings, if it makes sense. I

just, I just go, do you know

what I was interviewing? Michael
Grando, yeah. And he goes, I

love them. People are like, Oh,
I only do live or only do studio

goes, we're all studio
musicians. Yes, if you get a

call for a session, are you
turning it down? No, you're not.

What's

so, what's your your setup? Are
you advertising? I always ask

all the because, you know it's,
are you do advertising? Your

wears on sound better and air
gigs and all that.

Yeah, I have and air gigs has
worked out, okay, uh, it's, it's

become so competitive and over
saturated that it really what

we've seen as the industry has
changed and home studios are

growing. It's almost like the
same way you get live work, you

build it upon relationships and
to do a single song for a

songwriter overseas, or whatever
is cool, but to establish a

relationship with a songwriter
that wants to use you

constantly, or producer that has
a stable of clients that I feel

makes it profitable, yeah, to do
that because we all wanted to do

home studios, COVID hit, we all
upped the ante. Yeah, took our,

you know, our money, whatever
help we got from music cares or

whoever, and bought a new
interface and did all that

stuff. Yeah, I should have done
that, but still, it's like, Man,

that's a lot of work to do this
one song. I should be charging

more. How much do I charge? You
know, it's this constant. And I

just played for two hours and
got so much more than that. So

it's a constant battle. Yeah,

hamburger and steak. I'm sorry,
hamburger and steak. Yeah,

yeah, and but, but it's, it's,
it's, it's a, I'd say it's about

30% of what I do now, yeah,
where I know we have friends

that it's probably more like 70
or 80% of of what they do. But

we always, and we talk about
this a lot on the podcast. We

have a lot of people that are
doing it more full time, and

it's trying to streamline the
work. Time is money, yeah. So

how do you manage that in such a
way that doing that one track

goes by, templates, file
management, all that, all

those things. Because when you
go to a session where you're

hired as the drummer at a studio
with an engineer, guys, we're

good, moving on. Okay, to do one
more good. All right, moving on.

Moving on. I love that. And then
you're like, you're home by

three, and you're like, Man, I
just did a record. Yeah, and

maybe in a year I'll see it or
hear it where, when you're at

home, you're like, Yeah, I got
the file. Okay, put it in here.

I've got my template, but still,
listen to it. Did you have a no

chart? Okay, I'll write my own
chart. And then Mike's, where

was that my I use that mic for
another thing. Okay? I gotta

engineer. Then I got tuned. I
gotta be more than drummer doing

everything you're doing
everything. And so then here's

your 100 bucks,

yeah, when you're charging the
same as if you were in a so

yeah, every year I've given
myself a little bit of a raise,

yes, and then establish those
relationships with the producers

that I spoke with Ken Coomer,
yeah, not that long ago. So

Jim, we're gonna have Ken on the
show. He is the original drummer

with Wilco, and now he just
produces crazy, mad numbers of

records,

yeah, yeah. We played them on
the radio back in the day, yeah.

And,

um, Ken Coomer, you were talking
to Ken about, probably, about

recording himself, right? Yeah,
because I listened to the

interview, it was, yeah, yeah.

I think it's

like,

Ken, why would we be talking
about you, just because you're

amazing. I mean, I love Wilco
and we love the fact you become

an amazing producer and,

well, it's just, it's all about
just, kind of just managing that

time, oh, just doing one song at
a time for somebody just doesn't

work out. But having having
those relationships with people

just really kind of, again, it's
like having a little bit of

this, a little bit of that, so
then all of a sudden, that

person's out of the business or
leaving. You're like, okay, no,

I'm still good, yeah, so because
it's, it's creating a certain

amount of security, because we
have those friends that have

gigs, and it's like, man, if
that artist is like, Guys, I'm

done.

Yeah, you have a very radio
esque intro. Oh, thank you. The

Working drummer podcast,

I can tell you that we've had a
couple people do our intro. Nick

graffini Did our intro for a
while. Resource, a good friend

of mine who was in broadcasting,
and then a few years ago,

gosh, oh, the dude from Atlanta,
the voiceover guy,

Jack White. Jack White, the
drummer ragas his soul, who just

passed away. He was,

uh, Rick Springfield's original
drummer. Oh, yeah. He battled

for 10 cancer for 10 years.
Gosh, he was married to Peggy

Bundy.

Oh, really, yeah. So he's the
voice of our intro, and it's

just an honor to have him.

I didn't know that because it I
can hear it now. Yeah, yeah,

we had to speed it up a little
bit. But I'm so honored to have

him. That's amazing.

We miss you, buddy. Okay, yeah.

So very timely. We're
celebrating 500 episodes of your

podcast. Working drummer. You
started it in 2015 you've had

everyone, I mean, the big dogs,
you know, your Chad wackermans,

John Robinsons, Steve Smith,
Joel Rothman, Cindy. I want to

hear about Joel Kenny, Nick
Bucha Cindy Blackman, but you

also get guys that are, you
know, doing touring productions

off of Broadway or, you know,
New York cats, European cats. So

tell us. Tell us about the
podcast.

So I have to show you all this
while you're doing the camera.

This is title Warner. I think I
have some extra ones, but I

couldn't find them, so this has
been stuck on my fridge. On the

side, it's probably got grease
stains on it. More than 65

episodes available. Working
drummer. Podcast is the resource

for education, entertainment and
beyond one episode and you'll be

hooked. Rich Redmond, Jason
Aldean, sessions and clinic, you

offered a quote for me that was,
I was ever one of your first

guests. You were one of my first
guests. But this we were going

to summer Nam or winter Nam, or
something like that, and I

wanted something to hand out.
And this is, like, 2016 this

came out, and it's been sitting
there. And I've got a, you know,

an iTunes review, got our, you
know, all that stuff, more than

65 episodes

available. Amazing.

You know, that's, that's a big
milestone. 50 is a milestone,

because a lot of people will hit
20, and they'll

be like, This is work. How good?

Yeah. So, this is, you know,
back in the days when when

podcasts were rare, if you don't
have a podcast, you're in the

minority, I know. But at
midnight, Episode 500 posted

last night, nice. So when you
called, I was like, this is

going to be good timing. I've
taken a little bit of time off

for the holidays. Amazing
timing. Very excited about it.

We did not do anything big this
time around. The podcast for my

co host Zach Alberta and I has
been again, a piece of the

puzzle of what we do. He is a
full time touring musician,

drummer that does musicals. He's
out now with the touring company

of and Juliet. He's. He did the
ink too proud to beg, proud to

beg. That was 16 months of his
life. And amazing player, uh,

Atlanta, cat, right? Atlanta,
originally from, well,

originally from New Mexico,
studied in Kansas, lived in LA

for five years. When we first
met, he was moving, I thought,

Oh, great, off like a West Coast
guy, and he goes, Oh, and I'm

moving to Atlanta. I was like,
Oh man, how's that gonna work?

But really, after I did this the
first year, he joined and met

him through Nick Ruffini, yeah,
and just a great fit, yeah,

just, I couldn't ask for a
better partner. Just that

perfect yin yang. He jokes that
he's the party of no, I'm the

party of Yes. I'm like, we
should do this. We should do

that. He's like, Whoa, how about
we do this instead? I'm like,

Oh, that's a good idea. It seems
like he gets more jazzers. He

does. And I feel like we don't
necessarily pick a lane, but I

think it's more organic, because
now he's in the musical world,

he'll pull from that. I'm in
Nashville. I can pull from that,

but we try and not pigeon hole
ourselves. Yeah, but I had the

lead on wel once, and I was
like, and I'd met we call a few

times, and I thought, Zach. I
went, can you do this? Would you

mind? I'd feel much more
comfortable if you did it. You

guys can get into the weeds with
the short amount of time that he

may be available. We've tagged
team a few times, but again, I

feel so blessed that not only
can we create a consistent

episode every week based on
splitting the workload, but also

we're on the same page as far as
remaining true to the brand, if

you will, of showcasing the in
the trenches drummers, the

lesser known names, but still
impressive body of work. Yes,

something that we can all take
away from, it's nice to have we

call on. It's nice to have Todd
Superman on. But within those

conversations, what can I
extrapolate that is relatable to

somebody that just maybe is
playing on Broadway in

Nashville, or is playing a
weekend gig, or maybe at their

church or whatever, to engage
those listeners, those that are

curious to even the non drummer,
yeah, you know, so really

casual. I love that you know
you're saying, you know,

describe our conversation as
that, but you know it would try

and Zach prepares differently
than I do. I think I over

prepare. Got my outline just in
case, because I might have a

guest that is short with their
answers, and I may have to lead

the charge. I may have guessed
that I don't get a word in

edgewise, but over time, I've
learned to edit in the moment.

In other words, I think we're
done with this topic. Yeah, time

to move on. I call it passing
exit ramps.

It's a skill set, this, this,
this hosting thing, yep, is a

thinking on your feet thing, and
it's so good. Some people love

Sudoku. Some do crossword
puzzles. This is how Jim and I

keep our brain sharp, because
you really have to jib and jab

and think in the moment and and
we had to get our sea legs

together. As far as having two
people that could give and

take, well, it helps that you
had somebody who worked in the

business. No,

totally. Jim's a great coach,
and then I'm a I'm a good

student, and I'm sure you are in
the sense that I always go back

and listen to an episode, maybe
two times, maybe one for

enjoyment, and then one for how
can I improve my hosting skills?

And do I need to remove anything
or edit anything on behalf of

the guest?

Well, Matt, you do that, right?
You probably listen to it two or

three times before you release.
Well,

I go through and edit and over
time, and, you know, probably

not two times, but, but it does
give me an opportunity to hear

when I am maybe not allowing the
person to fully, you know,

finish their point, or other
things like that, happens. So I

think there's, there's ways that
definitely I again, it is a

skill set that I feel like has
helped me. And consider it's

like, what else can I be doing
with this? How else? Because at

the end of it, I do feel like,
man, I've, I've, I feel like I

just left a gig. Yeah, you know,
it feels good. There's a

lot of there's a lot going on up
here, yeah, in the head and the

heart. So the first thing that
comes to mind for me is you

could be a panel moderator. You
can be an event host. You can

create your own events. I mean,
there's now that you have this

organizational ability, and you
know how to cut to the chase and

keep people engaged, and it's
educational, but it's also

entertaining. It's fantastic.
I've

got, I got a lot of early
encouragement, yeah, from

friends and different people.
The very first guest was our

friend David Black, yeah, you
know, I thought I need to start

off with somebody we're just
comfortable with. Comfortable.

Know him. Great resume, great
player. Good. Personality, and

he was just a great and my
friend Mike Jackson helped me

get started. And he is in the
industry, as far as voiceover,

he's like, so he was able to
coach me with that stuff.

Totally

now, now what tell us about this
Patreon thing? Are we missing

out? What? What is that? So
Patreon talking about

the monetization of it? I'm kind
of curious. Yeah. Have you been

able to do that? Somewhat?

It took us a while to get to the
point where we could put money

in our pockets, but to make
enough money to keep the lights

on was our goal. Because for
Zach and I, the money we made

was from for him, teaching and
gigs and touring. For me, it was

playing and touring, recording
and all those things. So the

podcast still needed to be under
control so that we continue to

enjoy it. But after a while, we
did. We're doing some

advertising that helped. But
still, you've got the website,

you've got we're on megaphone
now that costs us a little bit

to subscribe to some of these
platforms, if it's gear, we use

you that

when you say ad, and were you
actually doing ads on the show?

Yeah, okay. Do you still? Yeah,

we still do nice so through

megaphone, which so about three
years ago, we joined a network

called the drum click. And so
let's get the big fat five and

all that big fat five they've
recently drumming, drummers on

drumming, I think is the new
name. I

think Ben is brilliant, because
does a great job. He took the

first several episodes, turned
it into a book, yes,

and we're having him on as a
guest, and coming up soon. Chris

mazzaritzi is from Big Fat snare
drum. I love Chris. He had the

idea to do this like comedians
do with podcasts. We'll start a

network, and we'll, you know,
work off each other. So, uh,

Bart van der Zee drum history,
which is an amazing podcast as

part of that network. Nice and,
uh, drum candy with Mike Dawson.

Mike Dawson, thank you. And so
right now, those are the ones

that are a part of that. And so
with with we with megaphone.

What's megaphone? So megaphone
is a distributor that when you,

when we first started, you had
to do all the code on your

website to get it to upload to
iTunes that now there's services

that you when you just dump your
mp three in there, it goes to

all the aggregates, like Libsyn
that we use. Libsyn, okay, that

type, and I'm trying to think of
dynamic advertising is the

thing. So when you listen to
podcasts, and you and you hear a

little and all sudden an ad
starts because they can see that

auto audible marker. Or
sometimes it could be like Conan

O'Brien, and it could be in the
in the middle of some sounds,

and it

goes, drives me up that, like my
radio sensibilities are off the

charts. When it happens, it's
like, mid sentence and it cuts

out. I'm like, why?

What happened? What that is,
what that is is, I know that's

dynamic ad player, right? So
we've got two spots that we you

program it in. You've got at the
beginning of the episode and

somewhere in the mid roll and
somewhere at the end, and each

one of those spots has a certain
value to that you can assign to

the the advertiser. So getting
into the, you know, can you

actually the donuts here? But

can you actually assign because,
like, when I do a lot of

podcasting for clients and stuff
like that, and I'm just, like,

if they have an ad, I'm just
baking it into the file. At some

point we got to get to dynamic
ads, but in the software I use

where I'm able to actually
designate the time. Okay, stop

here, and I might have a
produced piece that ramps up.

Hey, we're gonna be right back.
Boom, because let the listener

know you got, you know, you got
30 seconds. I even tell my

clients, well, they could skip
forward. I said, I understand

that. But what if you were to
prep them like, Hey, this is how

we pay the bills. Just make sure
you're listening to these. Some

of those words from our
sponsors. We're gonna be back in

a few make sure you check them
out, give us some love, because

you know, if you enjoy the
podcast, this is how we're

funding it.

It's an evolving industry. Yeah,
that when we now, everyone

listens to podcasts, they really
do. And as a result, we've

actually seen our listenership
go down, because it's like,

there's just so much out there.
Wow. So we now have tried to

find new ways to, you know,
invigorate that and bring

attention back to it, because we
were the only ones. There were

very few out there. Very few
podcasts, very few drumming

podcasts. Now there's more of
those. Yeah, we're, you know, as

a result of of of Nick slowing
down his output and some other

people. We're probably the
longest running podcast. And,

you know, again, 500 started. So
I also feel like it's still

super fun. Grow so much from it.
It's helped Zach and I on this

episode 500 talk about, I mean,
it's all in. The episode we talk

about, you know, just how it's
it's helped our our careers,

it's helped our growth as as
drummers and as as business

people and just all these
things, and my connections with

people within the industry,
whether it's playing or where

the retail industry that remains
intact, but it's not through

somebody else's business. It's
through mine, yeah. And I say

mine, Zach, and I Yeah, you
know. And so that feels really

good. I feel like I own
something. And one of the

inspiration for starting this
was like, I'm in a band, but I

have no say in this. And it's
like, but I'm not a songwriter.

How do I I want to create? I
want, I want something that's

mine, and so that was kind of
the start of that you

actually, I mean, looking at
your your Instagram page, are

you guys doing clips from the
episodes, like short form

content, things like that?

Yeah, not as much as, like some
of our young podcaster friends

that are super tech savvy, Zach
and I always checking in with

each other. It's like, Should we
do that? I see this and I see

that. I'm inspired, but yeah, do
we want to? Because

I'll tell you right now. Like
you again, my radio

sensibilities, yeah, to promote
the other shows on the radio

station. For my years in radios,
spent when talk radio always

running promos, throwing back to
the morning show. And hey,

here's what you could expect
coming up on blah, blah, blah.

That's what those are. You know,
getting people a little bit of a

taste that they may not have
found you, it's removing the

hoops. You know what I mean,
well, and

I just worked on one today for
Chad Wackerman. And so getting

back to doing that, we actually
hired Dan ainspan from the

National drummers podcast to do
a bunch of clips for us. So

again, it's a reminder of what
the drumming community is, the

podcasting community is, and
also, like some of the tech

stuff, that is a necessary evil,
but also maintaining and

managing it in such a way that
it remains fun. That's why we're

at 500 because Zach and I have
put some limits on how demanding

this thing is. Does it remain
fun? Does it remain and can it

pay for itself? Now, in recent
years, we've been able to put

some money back into our
pockets, but going back to your

Patreon, Patreon is, you know,
it's crowdfunding at its core,

yeah, and so there's a lot of
different ways to do it, but

Patreon has grown and it has
changed with the industry as

people are, you know, like, wow,
I can do this. I have now, I

have computer, I have internet.
I can create my own business. I

can create my, you know, it's,
it's endless, the opportunities

to create whatever, yeah, you
know. And so Patreon is one of

those things that has come up as
a result of this changing

industry. And

that's, it's like, again, going
back to how I coach clients in

the podcast space is, you know,
coming up with rate cards and

stuff like that, and different
things that you can do to make

it affordable for one business
versus another, identifying

those audiences that make sense,
because there are a lot of

people I could do the dynamic
ads that are controlled, and

they'll get a couple of points
on it, but at the end of the

day, it's like, you know, they
could start dictating what they

want you to Talk about, and all
that kind of stuff. And it's

typically not a good place to be
with certain kinds of podcasts.

In this case, you're kind of
talking about, you know, you

know, the kind of identifying
the advertisers that make sense

for a drumming podcast would be
what it would be, you know, you

got national reach so you can,
you could appeal to maybe some

insurance companies, things of
that nature, coffee, coffee

style brands, those fashion
brands, you know, yeah, I'm not

exactly sure if you're gonna
have, you know, drum

manufacturing companies, you
know, clamoring for advertising,

but they are really because they
have a they have an advertising

budget in a print market that
was always their MO, right? Is

going away. So they still have
the budget that needs to be used

somewhere. Yeah? And when you
have, like, an in ear company

that doesn't get a lot of
visuals, they need testimonials,

right? They need that. So a lot
of times we're guinea pigs with

stuff, yeah? Or we're like,
we're the beneficiary

forks will advertise with, I
believe, Nashville drummer

podcast. Yeah,

they advertise with us for quite
some time, but there's, there's

just so many different ways. And
because of the dynamic

advertising, you can do it by
region. Yeah, you can do it by

the Yeah. So, so JC, reached out
to us about the Music City drum

show. JC, Clifford, yeah, I've
actually

you were there right this past
year, yeah? Just talk about

community, yeah, because I was
actually set up with my own

podcast where you were, you were
out of town, yeah? And, you

know, it's something that we you
and I should probably at least

try and make an effort to be
there, get a booth this year,

possible. Yeah. I talked to JC,
and I can't remember the guy's

name, I'll be home.

I'll be home for that Sunday,
but yeah, we should check on

getting a booth. We

can get a booth, and maybe I can
just have a presence there, you

know. But I mean, JC and I, and
I the guy who Landon Hall.

Landon, yes, thank you. Sorry.
Landon, yeah, they are talking

about making, like a podcast
row. And I've suggested that. I

said, you know, get partnered
with one of these drum booth

sponsors. See,

we were there year one. I was
like a can, and we had a couch,

and we had people sit down. But
it's got to

be hermetically sealed, right?
It's,

I was able to do it, yeah, I was
able to,

we know we were there, but we
didn't, we didn't. We weren't

going to record anything, but we
were going to do is we had our

chiropractic friends that.
What's his name? Cheyenne

Gaffar, yeah,

he's a great guy. He's been on
another podcast that I produce

sales until so he,

you know, it's one of those
things where we were able to,

like, bring it's like that was
kind of our excuse to be there

and share this service and build
community. And a lot of times we

do stuff in this industry, we're
not really quite sure what the

end result is. It's not going to
be cash in your pocket at the

end of the day, but it's going
to be just a little down the

line. Yeah, a little bit down
the line. And again, it's just

you gotta constantly be doing
things. And so, you know you

were talking about, like, how do
people know who you are? Keogh,

what a great example. It's like
grassroots marketing at its

finest. When I tell people that
I'm an introvert, they're like,

really, but you do a podcast,
I'm like, I know, but that's how

I that's how I work around I
never see

you as an introvert. Let me tell
you this. I was just, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry being rude.
I was just texting our friend

Luis esbaya, former guest on the
working drummer. He's, you know

what, and because drummers love
Luis and he's just a drummer's

best friend, great guy. Listen,
I'm learning so much.

Congratulations on 500 episodes.
Working drummer.net. Anywhere

there's podcasts, you can get
the working drummers podcast.

We're gonna do the Fave Five,
Fave color, blue. So fast.

Everybody loves blue. So many
drummers. But do you have blue

drums?

No, I don't. Now, my first dw,
my first pro kit, was a royal

blue dw, royal

blue favorite food or dish,

man, my wife says, anything?
Pureed, um,

pureed, like, like, like, baby
food. Okay? Smoothies, yeah,

like, Joey eating the baby food.
Yeah,

come on in. You're

up next. Fight. You're up next.
Should

we put him right here? We can
sit down. My

friend. We're doing we're
wrapping up. We don't have

a microphone for you, but
something tells me you're low

enough. Thank God. What's up,
buddy? All right, so we're doing

the Faye five. So yeah, what
would be your favorite dish or

favorite food? Probably eggs.
Eggs are the nature's

multivitamin. Yeah, I'll have
four a

day. Let me ask you this,
though, can you eat for a day?

For a day, really? Yeah, because
they said that it's bad for you.

No, didn't been debunked,
really. So I should eat more

eggs. Eat

four eggs in the morning and a
whole avocado, and you will be

crushing this

paleo I've got tuna fish and
canned chicken.

Jim, oh my God, you're going to
be bench pressing

legs in there. Favorite drink?

Oh, coffee,

coffee, yeah. And then this,
these last two are so hard, and

Jim hates me for asking this,
but what is your favorite movie

of the moment or of all time?

Gosh,

like this sucker comes on and
you're like, sorry, babe, I'm

gonna be here for two hours, or
at the moment. Yeah, it could be

at the moment, like some people,
like, Step Brothers, yeah. Of

course, some people are, like,
JAWS

fit anywhere that

I've seen multiple that I will
watch every time is probably

Saving Private Ryan, oh god,
yeah. I mean, I cannot not watch

that

you get teared up at the end. My
dad and I watched

it together for the first time,
and at the end, he was

like, on the

football game, what's your
favorite song of all time, or

something you're digging right
now? Um,

what I'm digging right now is
Rosanna, yeah. And just trying

to get back into wrapping my
head around that as a huge

picaro fan and not a toto fan,
yeah. Sorry, not sorry. This is

big. I

mean, this is, this is
controversy in the making. So

not, you're not a fan of their
body of work overall, not,

not compared to some of our
friends that worship the entire

but what are some bands that you
freaking love? Well, I mean,

grew up listening to Rush and so
you know all that. Okay,

so Jim go,

what the question?

The question, so if you had to
pick a tribute band for the rest

of your life? Life. You cannot
do anything else. Yeah. What

tribute is it going to be? Paul
McCartney?

Wow,

yeah. Paul McCarthy,

because I get we did a tribute
show at third and Linsey, yeah,

and and at the moment with, with
the band Savannah jack, and we

were playing a ton of McCartney,
and we'd go and play Broadway

and open up with jet and band on
the run and stuff like that.

Everyone over 35 was like, yay.
And everybody else was like,

where are these guys? Yeah,
who's this guy? It was so fun to

not only play Ringo parts and
Abe liboreal Junior and try and

cop what he was doing. I'm like,
I could do this for the rest of

my life. Nice. It's I was in a
James Taylor tribute band for a

minute last year, fire and rain.
Yeah, the Kunkel. So who would

have thought to do that,

that? That was amazing, because
you're covering everybody from,

you know, Gad

Carlos Jordan, Carlos Vega.
It's,

it's, I mean, my heroes,
literally, my heroes. I think I

have an aversion towards being
in a tribute band, of bands that

I really, really love, because
then I'm like, I would hate this

by the end of it, you know,
seriously, I mean, McCarthy,

just it's covers so much, from
the rock to the, you know, 60s

rock to all throughout.

We need more journey tribute
bands, really, do

we being totally sarcastic?
Matt, what's the best way for

people to find you? Do you
personally have a.com

matthewcross.net,

sorely needs to be updated. But
you know, I I think that it's

hard to say social media is in a
weird spot right now. Again,

that's what I love about the
podcast. I've had a lot of

people reach out to me
personally through the podcast,

as they have Zach too, not just
for pod their podcast needs, but

for drumming and personal and
other things like that. So I

love that. So working
drummer.net. Yeah.

Great, nice. Hey, you are have
been a fantastic guest. I mean,

your your hosting chops are
sharp, 500 episodes, but isn't

it nice? Just let your guard
down and just be like, yeah,

man, it is. Man, I've not
unbuttoned this shirt. That's a

great shirt. Many years that is

a great western inspired shirt,
ladies and gentlemen, that's

Matthew Kraus, matthewcrows.net,
also check out working

drummer.net you can patronize
the site. You could give them a

little money for their time and
their efforts and their talents.

500 episodes is a major
commitment. Congratulations, and

you're a backbone of the
drumming community here. It's

just a pleasure to know you, and
I'm so happy for you, man, thank

you, man, dude, thanks for being
on here. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, Jim, thank you for your
time and talent, buddy. Thank

you, Jim. You're welcome. Hey.
And I do want to say this jacket

that I'm wearing, everybody
knows I'm a sucker for dead

cows. Very thin dead cows. This
is a company called last Wolf.

And my friend Rob ricotta. He's
a drummer. He opened up for us a

couple years ago with John not
John Edwards, uh, John Morgan,

what's up, John? And he was nice
enough to get me this coat from

this company, and even embossed
my initials on the jacket. So I

just want to say, what's up,
Rob, just want to say, what's

up. Last Wolf, I really like
this brown bomber jacket that

you have, and there's also a
brown Cafe Racer jacket that you

guys have. But, uh, Anyways,
guys, hey, there's this company

called DW. I really like your
drums. They sound really good.

There's just one drum set, and
apparently you got the wood from

Lake Superior. I mean, come out,
I don't know. I think they're

sold out of that gym or whatever
happens next. All the doctors

and the lawyers buy those. The
guys that make big time bucks

buy those kits. Right? Totally.
Hey so guys, thank you for

watching, thanks for supporting
the show. Be sure to subscribe,

share, rate and review. It helps
people buy and follow the show

and buy this. This is my book
here, right here, Crash Course,

success, I know, but this is the
you're like, hey, just promote

this stuff. I'm a drummer with a
product. There's my practice

pad. By the practice pad. It's,
it's made in America. Yeah, go

to Starbucks

and check out the mostly Middle
Tennessee business podcast.com.

That's right, and it's just like
George Burns used to say you're

that. They say, Hey, George,
what does your doctor think

about you smoking 10 cigars a
day and drinking copious amounts

of whiskey and chasing young
women, and he said,

I don't know he's dead. Ah,
we'll see you next time. Folks,

thanks, Matt.

This has been the rich Redmond
show. Subscribe, rate and follow

along@richredmen.com

forward, slash podcasts. You